FF 14 has the worst dungeons

[Red-thunder]

require more than dps maximization and standing on the right pixel

never gonna happen. this game from top to bottom is designed for log-brainrotten parsers

[Valence]

Something something Criterion trash wink wink nudge nudge.
The only part of Criterion that I actually find pretty stellar (bosses are just doubling down on regurgitated obnoxious ddr raid mechanics).

[Mawlzy]

Something something Criterion trash wink wink nudge nudge.
The only part of Criterion that I actually find pretty stellar (bosses are just doubling down on regurgitated obnoxious ddr raid mechanics).

Agree so much. I first ran them with a friend, both of us commenting that the trash mobs were actually something a little different. Then we hit the boss and.... ah... this crap again.

[Kohashi]

Regardless, people will always streamline and find the easiest, fastest, and least friction path. This applies to every single game, even those that offer ample variation and complexity.

That's why every single game under the sun has a guide on how to achieve the best, the fastest X. (The best build, the fastest gold, the fastest levels, the best specs, the best gear.. etc)

[Absurdity]

Regardless, people will always streamline and find the easiest, fastest, and least friction path. This applies to every single game, even those that offer ample variation and complexity.

That's why every single game under the sun has a guide on how to achieve the best, the fastest X. (The best build, the fastest gold, the fastest levels, the best specs, the best gear.. etc)

Of course people are going to optimize everything, there is fun in the process and seeing the results work out.

The problem is when the game gets designed in such a way that the optimized way is the baseline, it not only destroys it for the people who aren't trying to optimize but also for those that do.

[Ardeth]

It 1000% does.

It stinks because no matter what you do, the players will streamline it, and SquareEnix has given up trying.

[Supersnow845]

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

[Kohashi]

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

I am pretty much used to this, and I expect this format in MMOs. But then again, perhaps I don't understand the requests because I personally don't care about dungeons. I was never a casual in the strict sense of just doing the story and then coming back at the next patch cycle. I always raided, and I always did end game content. Dungeons were a means to an end. To help me gear and access the end content.

If I wanted narratives that I wanted to explore and which offered rich experiences, I always looked for games that were centered around that. Baldur's Gate 3 is the latest prime example of this.

[RenkoBernkastel]

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

[Kohashi]

Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

I just recently did a story dungeon in GW2 with their equivalent of trust, and it's exactly the same. The only major difference is that I never thought it possible that another game would make a worse version of Trust, and yet Gw2 managed to deliver on it. While some of the bosses had quite interesting mechanics (for the first time) everything else was a pretty awful experience..LOL. Still linear and essential a corridor but with absolutely dogshit AI for the Trust. Never again..