Requiring a permit to cross the bridge was bad writing, change my mind.

[Cleretic]

You have yet to actually explain why a linear story necessitates a linear design other than “it’s the way it is” especially since ARR directly refutes it because ARR is just as linear in its design but it doesn’t actually enforce linear progression through the zones

Yes we did. Frequently.

You can't go to Shaaloani first, to bring us back home to the original point, for these out-of-universe reasons:

• That's just not where the story is, and they want you to do the story.
• They want to protect people from making dumb decisions like 'going to a zone they're grossly underleveled for that there isn't anything for them to do in'.
• The zone is designed with the assumption that you've done the first half of the expansion, and therefore has elements that can rely on that context, but would be approached poorly without it.
• The zone has an open gate to a different zone that doesn't chronologically exist yet, but the in-universe world would not prevent you from going to the location of.

All of that facilitates locking off Shaaloani until the story calls for it, no matter how much you rattle the bars and go 'let me in'; if you don't understand this after I've laid all this out as simply and directly as I can, I can't help you, and I suspect you're just arguing for the sake of it. After that comes figuring out the in-universe reason, and they landed on 'you need a permit that's currently paused', which is a pretty good angle in my book given the circumstances of the story.


Also, A Realm Reborn made a lot of mistakes. Some of them were quiet, some of them were loud, but many of them were just... the sort of lesson you learn the hard way. And yes, one of those mistakes is not having any way to stop someone from making a series of bad decisions that softlocks them into a zone that's grossly above their level and has nothing for them.

It's a bad thing that A Realm Reborn has those zones unlocked from the start. It's a mistake they learned from very quickly. (EDIT: And found positives after doing it; you couldn't do the sort of landscape storytelling that exists in Labyrinthos or, yes, Shaaloani, if you're designing like they were in A Realm Reborn; the ARR zones just don't have those sorts of landmarks in them, because you can't do that if you're designing with the assumption a level 3 might walk into the level 50 zone.)

[MikkoAkure]

Like let’s say you can hear a rumour in a town in Lakeland if you complete a quest, that rumour is that Bismarck can be awoken with a special rare item in Ill mheg. If you get said item you can awaken him and access the tempest (minus amurot) early, or thus gets skipped if you do the MSQ directly. It makes Lakeland seem more alive, quest rewards are more than useless pity gold and the world is more open. This would also be combined with actually rewarding exploration of zones outside of where the MSQ goes

That doesn't feel like it enriches the world or brings any value, it just diminishes the story. Before we get to him and plead our case, he had only moved one other time in living memory and to do so for a meaningless sidequest that just exists for you to get to half a zone faster that you couldn't do anything in while skipping the MSQ is just frivolous. For what other reason than the MSQ would the most ancient being in this world take you to an otherwise random spot in the ocean to blow it up and make an air bubble? What would there actually be to do in an empty zone out of your level range?

The solution to the "problem" of zone access is to just to the friggin story and then boom, you have free open access to everything.

[Supersnow845]

Yes we did. Frequently.

You can't go to Shaaloani first, to bring us back home to the original point, for these out-of-universe reasons:

• That's just not where the story is, and they want you to do the story.
• They want to protect people from making dumb decisions like 'going to a zone they're grossly underleveled for that there isn't anything for them to do in'.
• The zone is designed with the assumption that you've done the first half of the expansion, and therefore has elements that can rely on that context, but would be approached poorly without it.
• The zone has an open gate to a different zone that doesn't chronologically exist yet, but the in-universe world would not prevent you from going to the location of.

All of that facilitates locking off Shaaloani until the story calls for it, no matter how much you rattle the bars and go 'let me in'; if you don't understand this after I've laid all this out as simply and directly as I can, I can't help you, and I suspect you're just arguing for the sake of it. After that comes figuring out the in-universe reason, and they landed on 'you need a permit that's currently paused', which is a pretty good angle in my book given the circumstances of the story.


Also, A Realm Reborn made a lot of mistakes. Some of them were quiet, some of them were loud, but many of them were just... the sort of lesson you learn the hard way. And yes, one of those mistakes is not having any way to stop someone from making a series of bad decisions that softlocks them into a zone that's grossly above their level and has nothing for them.

It's a bad thing that A Realm Reborn has those zones unlocked from the start. It's a mistake they learned from very quickly. (EDIT: And found positives after doing it; you couldn't do the sort of landscape storytelling that exists in Labyrinthos or, yes, Shaaloani, if you're designing like they were in A Realm Reborn; the ARR zones just don't have those sorts of landmarks in them, because you can't do that if you're designing with the assumption a level 3 might walk into the level 50 zone.)

Okay once we get to this point where you embolden this it comes to the point that we simply fundamentally disagree on the design of the game and that’s fine. Because your point is precipitated from the emboldened statement and I simply do not agree with it and that’s fine

Thank you for the discussion, sorry if it was shallow to you