Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Drakonic]

For all the hate levied against FF13 in much of the playerbase, it sure is interesting how people are just eating current dungeon designs up.

Dungeons have become linear corridors where the trash are meaningless and mechanics are regurgitated over and over again. There are always a few flourishes that make the dungeon feel exciting and fresh, but these are always visual: the whale ride in Anyder; the dragon ride in Pagl'than; the vibrant colors in the lava cave in Matoya's Relict. None of these are gameplay elements.

I think people have forgotten what ARR dungeons were like. While they were often drab affairs, you can't deny that the developers were trying their best to be creative, whether it hits or misses. In the Wanderer's Palace you have a Tonberry that chases you, which with low gear and mediocre players actually poses a significant threat even during trash packs. Dzemael Darkhold had an entire corridor where there is interaction with the environment - staying in the blue regions protected you from Eyes on Me and tanks pulled the mobs and the boss into those zones. Snowcloak has the Yeti which took forever unless you froze snowballs and allow them to grow bigger and hit it into the Yeti. In Hullbreaker Isle, when facing the Kraken you'd want to drop tornados onto different platforms away from the party, and the tank should face the tentacles away from the party too. In Brayflox's Longstop HM's final boss, you should repel the bombs away to the edge to prevent them from exploding on you. All these mechanics were fresh for most people at the time.

Compare this to ShB dungeons. I'll just use the latest two dungeons as examples. Both are of course complete corridors - Matoya's Relict simply exchanges a completely linear corridors layout with a teleporter... that hardly shakes up the formula. Wanderer's Palace had a section where the path forward is ambiguous especially for newer players, despite it being essentially linear too. That is because the Tonberries chase you around and wander around, blocking up paths and opening up others. Even a minor tweak like that makes the dungeon feel much less like a corridor. The bosses in Pagl'than and Matoya's Relict also don't have any interesting mechanics at all. Lunar Bahamut is essentially a fight with mechanics that everyone has seen: divebombs, stack markers, and shrinking AoEs. About the only interesting boss mechanic in the entire dungeon is dropping off lightning on a lamppost, which you've already seen in The Aery. Matoya's Relict is also pretty dull with respect to boss mechanics. Something damning too is the fact that Drippy's water hole mechanic has been repeated over and over again recently, with the very same mechanic occuring in the very next dungeon's... second boss as well. I found that the only interesting mechanic was killing the wind sprite and bursting up into the air to see in which direction the pig was blowing for the last boss.

Modern dungeons suffer from a style over substance design philosophy but they also seem to be implemented in a way where there is almost little to no danger of wiping even when everyone is fresh to the fight. The mechanics are just that easy to figure out. Compare this to City of Amdapor's last boss, wherein you need to open two doors of the same type to dodge the boss's ultimate attack. While it's skippable now, on release it provided a major challenge to average players and people have to come together to explain and figure out the fight together. Don't get me wrong, the dungeons in ARR aren't actually difficult. But they feel different from each other because of the little gameplay twists here and there, and the mechanics are punishing enough to still cause more wipes than "Expert" dungeons do these days.

I think SE is gravely wrong about turning dungeons into a pure vehicle for delivering the story, rather than an interesting encounter in and of itself. The reason why people don't care about the reduction to the number of dungeons is because they've all become samey, boring, and unchallenging since Stormblood, and beneath the paint they're all pretty much just corridors with trivial boss fights. It's kinda sad that the justification of quality over quantity is only reified on the aesthetic side. Dungeon gameplay has gotten progressively blander and blander. Cinematic dungeons are only fun the first time round. Dungeons that have a strong gameplay element will have more longevity than the current cinematic experiences. In ARR, people found dungeons a chore as well, but I can say without rose-colored lenses that current dungeons are not only a chore but something j actively avoid doing these days. I have more fun revisiting ARR dungeons on alts than doing Expert dungeons for the first time.

I'm not going to go into Mythic+ but were Square Enix to go back to ARR design for gameplay with ShB quality aesthetics when it comes to dungeons, they can easily add a popular side content that will have longevity through an entire patch. It's certainly in their financial interests to amp up the gameplay of these dungeons too.

[SniperCT]

...dungeons are like ff13? I had no idea every single fight took 30 minutes no matter how insignificant the mob was. (listen, I loved ff13's story but that combat was awful lol)

I do think they could stand a little more variety and to be less linear.

[Hazama999]

You know, I do miss some of that difficulty in dungeons. I remember timing out once or twice in Pharos Sirius when it released with 2.1. I remember hearing of people purposely not unlocking it so it wouldn't show up on the roulette... lol.

[Allegor]

I'll have to agree on this one, to an extend at least. Aside from story purposes, dungeons are basically just glamour shopping rather than their own form of content.

[Bacent]

Would like some mechanics where the 4 players are split up to do a small puzzle or something and can only get to the boss when all 4 players do what's needed. Or have some sneak off during a boss fight to trigger something/ect.

[Jirah]

I’ve said this ages ago, it’s hardly news anymore and will most likely get worse with EW

[Endariel]

But super casuals will complain "ItS tOo HaRd, uNsUb"

[Fredco191]

Would like some mechanics where the 4 players are split up to do a small puzzle or something and can only get to the boss when all 4 players do what's needed. Or have some sneak off during a boss fight to trigger something/ect.

I would actually love something like this!

[KaitoAsaha]

They can do what DCUO does with their npcs being put into the same dungeon as players. In one instance their npcs can freely switch between either healing or tanking to keep some of the heat off of the players, in the event that no one is a healer. There's also a soft passive buff placed on them to receive a bit of health when blocking, along with increased defense for when a tank and healer aren't present. With the Trusts in dungeons with us, let's say 2 npcs, and 4 players, tune some of the bosses so that 3 or 2 players can handle them, whole the other 2 players split off to handle other side, varying, side tasks with the Trust npcs that can make the fight harder or easier for the people fighting the boss. At work and didn't fully express this properly but there's VERY little from DCUO I'd ever want to see in XIV, as I consider XIV the superior game. But they've got something somewhat neat going on with their npc system and definitely their glamours being something you cam change, swap, or dye on the fly.

[Nethereal]

Troll aside dungeons haven't been good since ARR & HW in terms of substance. It's intentional. The developer's talk about streamlining dungeons and wanting to do even more in Endwalkers.