Quitting high end raiding due to latency

[BeregondAndorhal]

(Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place. I wanted to post in the raiding section but can't seem to find one.)

I've been playing FFXIV for 3 years and, after several Savage tiers, Criterion and 4 Ultimates, I've reluctantly decided to give up on high end raiding. I wish to share my experience in case some might relate or be able to shed some light on why things are the way they are, as I have no knowledge in game development.

Living in Eastern Canada, my ping has always been higher than most people I've raided with. It felt like I had an handicap compared to them, having less time to react to mechanics, needing to resolve them at an earlier time and having no leeway to adjust to visual cues. My statics knew that if there were adjustments to be made on the fly, I could not, they had to do it. But sometimes, nothing could be done: in DSR, if myself and the healer who also had a high ping were paired for the knockback in Death of the Heavens, we could not resolve it. She would always die and I would always get a damage down. How is this okay? How is it that they make content demanding such precise timing but don't provide reliable servers to do that content? It's not only high latency, it's inconsistent latency. Lag spikes happen, but when your latency gives you no leeway to begin with, that's a wipe and a 20-minute pull down the drain caused by the game itself.

This has been my limited experience in Canada, but I remember a person who had to be removed from my UWU static because he simply could not move in time during Titan. He could not hope to do Ultimate content due to where he lived. I understand this issue disproportionately affects parts of the world that are far from data centers geographically. I've even heard more than once that the server-sided lag in North America is known and intentional on Square Enix's part, though that may be speculation. I'm genuinely interested in understanding why this is happening and why SE deems acceptable that their game is unplayable in parts of the world and that, for the same game and subscription price, paying customers in those regions are offered such an inferior service that a whole chunk of the content is subpar or even inaccessible. World of Warcraft offered better service with no snapshotting back in 2004. What am I missing?

I'm sad to be leaving high end raiding. I enjoy it, enough to put up with the game's quirks until now, but feel like my time is not being respected. This latency issue has clearly affected lots and lots of players over the years, so I'm wondering how it's been treated by both SE and the player base.

[Kandraxx]

You already answered your own question. It’s a bad WoW copy with no actual mechanics or gameplay depth and has to make up for it to create some sort of ‘high tier content’.

[Daughterofdeath]

they need to take note of how old the dungeons were, and how a fight or two in Heavensward is designed. I mean you got the totem guy where u have to move the totems, you have math boss, you have the sniper mch and others similar to them like with the ads in tam-tar hard ur not supposed to kill, the kill the sword lady ad in hakkuu manor hard etc. Those fights still feel better than anything they have added past that, they have a fight "mch" that feels good when you do it, and its not just some lazy speed mode movement/position and stand and wait resolve return to fight pattern bs, and make use of different things/negative and positive not just lazy vulnerability stacks lol

[Jeeqbit]

The scale of your ping issues give me the impression that your ping is 1000-2000ms. I know because I experienced it almost this bad when I had 1000ms ping due to my PC specs.

For the record, the worst ping people normally get is around 400ms. So some other factor is at play here and increasing your ping beyond what it should (such as computer specs, faulty network equipment, an ISP throttling you, or a really bad route to the server by your ISP).

How is this okay? How is it that they make content demanding such precise timing but don't provide reliable servers to do that content?

I believe the servers themselves are alright. The concept of snapshotting can take time to fully understand though, since it's not intuitive.

It's not only high latency, it's inconsistent latency. Lag spikes happen

Now this has been a major issue recently. The NA servers are getting a DDoS every day. I experience lag spikes that sometimes kill me in high end duties and a trace clearly proves the spike is happening at SE's server itself - meaning it's a DDoS attack they are not reporting or noticing.

I have used a VPN to completely, 100% change my route to the server. I have tried going through Texas and Alabama (bottom route). I have tried going through Nevada (middle route). I have tried going through Seattle (top route). From my immediate location, I have tried changing the route to go from south to southwest, west, and northwest. It doesn't matter - I still spike.

DDoS is a major problem and SE isn't even talking about it. I think they are stumped because they don't think they can solve the problem. But it's making me want to transfer away from the NA data centers altogether.

In case you aren't aware, a DDoS is where lots of attackers try to attack the server. It's possible SE isn't actually the target, but rather another company that hosts their machines at the same place, and SE gets caught in the crossfire. I'm not sure.

I've even heard more than once that the server-sided lag in North America is known and intentional on Square Enix's part

They don't apply lag intentionally. They originally moved the location of the NA data centers because the previous location was not good for server upgrades which they needed. Unfortunately this increased ping for many players, and got caught up in a political issue with NTT who were throttling network traffic for political reasons unrelated to SE - but this directly affects traffic to SE's servers.

Where it concerns lag on ability weaving, I don't think that is intentional. I think it is incompetence ie. bad code.

World of Warcraft offered better service with no snapshotting back in 2004. What am I missing?

Snapshotting is partly intentional (it snapshots on cast completion, executes the results of the snapshot as the animation goes off). But it's also partly a code issue that it takes as long as it does. They could make it at least look faster at high pings by predicting if it kills you on the client side. It would just require putting the damage calculation into the client itself so it can predict combat events that pertain to yourself. They may as well do it because we know the damage formula by now.

[Red-thunder]

were paired for the knockback in Death of the Heavens, we could not resolve it

I honestly don't understand how this could happen unless your ping is 1000ms or something. You have like 3 seconds to go to the right spot and you don't need to coordinate if you have a priority system.

UWU static because he simply could not move in time during Titan

I can see this happening if the ping is like 200ms though.

This latency issue has clearly affected lots and lots of players over the years, so I'm wondering how it's been treated by both SE and the player base.

They will never fix it because they know everyone just uses NC or Alexander these days, but those only resolve issues due to animation lock.

The game is definitely unplayable at high ping though, even with tunneling services. It's extremely unfun. This game is extremely unresponsive and everyone still playing it have Stockholm'd themselves into accepting junk like snapshotting.

Just be a single player king and enjoy actual good games. And play something like Helldivers 2 with your buds. Not FF14 lmao. You'll have a way better time.

[Nero-Voidstails]

(Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place. I wanted to post in the raiding section but can't seem to find one.)

I've been playing FFXIV for 3 years and, after several Savage tiers, Criterion and 4 Ultimates, I've reluctantly decided to give up on high end raiding. I wish to share my experience in case some might relate or be able to shed some light on why things are the way they are, as I have no knowledge in game development.

Living in Eastern Canada, my ping has always been higher than most people I've raided with. It felt like I had an handicap compared to them, having less time to react to mechanics, needing to resolve them at an earlier time and having no leeway to adjust to visual cues. My statics knew that if there were adjustments to be made on the fly, I could not, they had to do it. But sometimes, nothing could be done: in DSR, if myself and the healer who also had a high ping were paired for the knockback in Death of the Heavens, we could not resolve it. She would always die and I would always get a damage down. How is this okay? How is it that they make content demanding such precise timing but don't provide reliable servers to do that content? It's not only high latency, it's inconsistent latency. Lag spikes happen, but when your latency gives you no leeway to begin with, that's a wipe and a 20-minute pull down the drain caused by the game itself.

This has been my limited experience in Canada, but I remember a person who had to be removed from my UWU static because he simply could not move in time during Titan. He could not hope to do Ultimate content due to where he lived. I understand this issue disproportionately affects parts of the world that are far from data centers geographically. I've even heard more than once that the server-sided lag in North America is known and intentional on Square Enix's part, though that may be speculation. I'm genuinely interested in understanding why this is happening and why SE deems acceptable that their game is unplayable in parts of the world and that, for the same game and subscription price, paying customers in those regions are offered such an inferior service that a whole chunk of the content is subpar or even inaccessible. World of Warcraft offered better service with no snapshotting back in 2004. What am I missing?

I'm sad to be leaving high end raiding. I enjoy it, enough to put up with the game's quirks until now, but feel like my time is not being respected. This latency issue has clearly affected lots and lots of players over the years, so I'm wondering how it's been treated by both SE and the player base.

well I am from eastern Canada myself and I have no issues at all with my ping so maybe your Internet isn't strong enough or! you could have a damaged rooter

[Balmung_Griffin]

They don't apply lag intentionally. They originally moved the location of the NA data centers because the previous location was not good for server upgrades which they needed. Unfortunately this increased ping for many players, and got caught up in a political issue with NTT who were throttling network traffic for political reasons unrelated to SE - but this directly affects traffic to SE's servers.

I believe OP is mentioning the issue discussed on this thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...threads/444667

[Voryn]

I’ve also met a few people from eastern Canada who do ultimate raids (iirc my DSR group had two or three), you may be having a specific issue that makes your connection worse than others.

But even with good ping, there’s “lag” with the snapshots where the mechanic gets decided before the visual goes off. There’s also the situations where the game thinks a moving enemy or object is farther ahead than it looks. I’m on the west coast and have good ping but still have to think about it and play around it. So if it turns out there’s a connection issue you need to improve then the issue you’re mentioning still exists to some degree (although less for some people than others).

[Mawlzy]

The problem extends well beyond raiding. When the only lever devs are prepared to pull to provide us with more "stress" is "make it faster," the resulting fights are dull and a test of latency as much as player skill (or tolerance to boredom).

[Gurgeh]

(Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place. I wanted to post in the raiding section but can't seem to find one.)
...

Pick any section you like. The game doesn't respect anything other than raiding at the end of the day. (Kind of kidding. Kind of not kidding)

I'd be curious to know what ping you had? I dint remember seeing in the post?

Yeah I agree with this post. They ought to limit themselves to a workable experience up to the very highest end (ultimate) for a reasonable ping. Id say a reasonable ping is anything up to about 140/160.
If that means weaknesses of the game mean they can't make sure challenging content for people with 40 ping, then though-titty.
It doesn't affect me. I don't high end. My ping is good at about 60 I think..But I absolutely believe you, and it's not ok.

Other things that are part of this are that they have STILL not fixed is that problem with what people call the 'netcode'? If that's true m
Allowing some to get an advantage using 3rd party fixes? I.e they've STILL not fixed it?