Raiders, why do you consider raiding just not memory games ?

[Valence]

Any kind of repetitive action is going to be dull. What about drills for a sports team? I can't imagine they find that enthralling, but in reinforces habits they need later on when playing through a live game. And having it all pay off while participating in the game can be enjoyable and satisfying.

Are you saying that XIV is more akin to sports drills than the actual sport itself?

[TaleraRistain]

Are you saying that XIV is more akin to sports drills than the actual sport itself?

I'm saying that XIV raiding has parallels to being on a sports team. You run the drills, you master the movements, and then you play the game.

It's not for everyone and it doesn't have to be. Fishing isn't for everyone. Crafting and Gathering isn't for everyone. Field content isn't for everyone. Mahjong isn't for everyone.

[ovIm]

I'm saying that XIV raiding has parallels to being on a sports team. You run the drills, you master the movements, and then you play the game.

But "and then you play the game" is not what is happening here. The "drill" is the game. You are not preparing for a sports event, you are learning a dance routine, which is the same every time. There is no moment to moment gameplay in this game, its all rehearsed. You can literally pre-plan your button presses to the second for every second of every fight, and you will win. The only two types of games I can think of where this is desired is rhythm games and some difficult kaizo mario romhacks.

It's not for everyone and it doesn't have to be. Fishing isn't for everyone. Crafting and Gathering isn't for everyone. Field content isn't for everyone. Mahjong isn't for everyone.

It becomes a problem when the game has lured in players through a different kind of gameplay, then changed how it worked, and now expects players to suck it up and do it their way. We can't compare Raids from ARR-SB to what we are being served now, and its only understandeable that people who have been here longer, who were interested because of how the game used to be back then, are complaining.
We are seeing how some of the game designers of the game have a deeply flawed understanding of their own game, and then double down on their decisions because they lack the creativity or courage to do something else. The "its not for everyone" argument loses its weight when considering all of that imho.

[TaleraRistain]

It becomes a problem when the game has lured in players through a different kind of gameplay, then changed how it worked, and now expects players to suck it up and do it their way. We can't compare Raids from ARR-SB to what we are being served now, and its only understandeable that people who have been here longer, who were interested because of how the game used to be back then, are complaining.
We are seeing how some of the game designers of the game have a deeply flawed understanding of their own game, and then double down on their decisions because they lack the creativity or courage to do something else. The "its not for everyone" argument loses its weight when considering all of that imho.

It's perfectly valid to not like how something changed and state that, but that's not what the OP is saying. The OP doesn't even do raids. The OP is looking at raiding, saying it's just a memory game that could be botted, and basically going why do you do it. So raiders in the thread explained what can be enjoyable about it. People can certainly say they don't enjoy that and why and ask SE to adjust things. And SE can either listen or continue on their course. Things change and sometimes we just have to deal with that. I lost my ARR and HW style relic questlines that I loved doing when they started getting tied to field content. I stopped doing relics as much because of it. It sucks, and I still give feedback about it to SE. I'll probably never get that back. I don't go screaming at people that like field content that they ruined relics for me, even thought they LOVE to blame anyone who doesn't like field content for why we didn't get it for an expansion. I blame SE and their decisions since they are the ones in control of that.

[Valence]

It's perfectly valid to not like how something changed and state that, but that's not what the OP is saying. The OP doesn't even do raids. The OP is looking at raiding, saying it's just a memory game that could be botted, and basically going why do you do it. So raiders in the thread explained what can be enjoyable about it. People can certainly say they don't enjoy that and why and ask SE to adjust things. And SE can either listen or continue on their course. Things change and sometimes we just have to deal with that. I lost my ARR and HW style relic questlines that I loved doing when they started getting tied to field content. I stopped doing relics as much because of it. It sucks, and I still give feedback about it to SE. I'll probably never get that back. I don't go screaming at people that like field content that they ruined relics for me, even thought they LOVE to blame anyone who doesn't like field content for why we didn't get it for an expansion. I blame SE and their decisions since they are the ones in control of that.

Whether the OP raids or not (a forum profile tells you nothing unless people actually show their main), I have myself raided since SB and do agree with the base statement. There is nothing exciting in raiding, savage or ultimates, or criterion. Perhaps in the past we could at least find some manner of satisfaction in our jobs and mastering the actual management that came out of it, and even before SB have actual encounters with things to juggle through that weren't just binary body check DDR puzzles, but that's not the case anymore and hasn't been since SB/ShB.

If the idea is that some raiders have explained what they find enjoyable about it, then I vehemently disagree with them, and I'm not the only one here. But ultimately it's about tastes right? However I do think a lot of the points being raised are objective flaws of the system, whether one likes it or not.

[TaleraRistain]

Whether the OP raids or not (a forum profile tells you nothing unless people actually show their main), I have myself raided since SB and do agree with the base statement. There is nothing exciting in raiding, savage or ultimates, or criterion. Perhaps in the past we could at least find some manner of satisfaction in our jobs and mastering the actual management that came out of it, and even before SB have actual encounters with things to juggle through that weren't just binary body check DDR puzzles, but that's not the case anymore and hasn't been since SB/ShB.

If the idea is that some raiders have explained what they find enjoyable about it, then I vehemently disagree with them, and I'm not the only one here. But ultimately it's about tastes right? However I do think a lot of the points being raised are objective flaws of the system, whether one likes it or not.

They say it in their post which is the only reason I mentioned it.

My raiding firsthand experience only goes as high as knowing the mechanics well of DT EX3 as SMN, and having only just cleared P4S with echo. (I didn't bother trying to farm EX3 as my PF experience was a nightmare) however my friends who I chat with often range from savage clear to all ultimate's cleared to elitists.