Raiders, why do you consider raiding just not memory games ?

[Starrya]

While memorization is a lot of the fights, there are several aspects that help me not feel like it's the only thing that matters.

The first is that when you get to higher difficulties, there are often one or more mechanics that require real time problem solving. Even if you have the solution memorized, you still have to untangle the strings fast enough to resolve it. The second is that I enjoy improving at the fights. Even if I can do them, there's usually something I could have done better than I can work on next time. That turns my focus from the parts I have memorized already to the parts I can improve on. The third is that I have a lot of friends who either play the game or who I met while playing the game, and when we really do have fights down that much, we can chat and have fun while we're doing them. If we're grinding an EX so we can all get the mount, we can just chat and have a good time the same as you would running treasure dungeons or doing dailies.

edit: syntax

[Divinemights]

Don’t know what you are talking about
All MMORPG boss fight is about memory of a fight and your muscle memory
WoW got it easy only because of third party tool

[NaoSen]

Don’t know what you are talking about
All MMORPG boss fight is about memory of a fight and your muscle memory
WoW got it easy only because of third party tool

I mean FF got third party plenty too, last two worlds first ultimate's used them. With SE not caring if you use mods or not besides "please dont" they may as well build them into the game too.

[Divinemights]

I mean FF got third party plenty too, last two worlds first ultimate's used them. With SE not caring if you use mods or not besides "please dont" they may as well build them into the game too.

Keyword is legit
FF14 officially do not allow third party of any kind
This is the problem with FF14 mod users
They are actively provoking SE and once SE tolerance reached max
Sky is going to fallen because of their own doing

[RoboticNomad]

While true that all raids (and by extension MMO bosses in general) are just memory checks, I believe it's FFXIV's method of boss design to be why it feels like just doing a choreographed dance repeatedly. Which is not a judgement on it, that's just the games chosen design with very tight and consistent timings to boss fights. It lends itself very well to people who like optimizing their performance as after a certain point the only thing that will change is how well you personally perform in the raid. For other types of gamers though, it does get stale and this is where other MMOs, despite being a memorized dance in their own way, feel like less of a dance. I'll do the cliche and compare it to WoW where it feels more like a 'raid' as in you are raiding a bad guy's base because it's an actual dungeon rather than 4 separate square or circle rooms with a boss. This visual difference and feel is enough to hide it's basic structure for some people.
I feel like this memorization complaint is more about a general losing of interest in FFXIV's raiding itself which is valid as it is very stale and samey feeling. While the aesthetics of the current raids are great and has an in-game reason why it's just a boss fight in a square room, it's at the end of the day doing the same thing you've been doing for years. While WoW's quality feels like a rollercoaster sometimes, they have the room to throw in a lot more curve balls that spice up the different raids. I don't know how FFXIV can change this as it's kinda what they are known for and I'm not sure they want to anyway as this is just their chosen niche.

[Valence]

There is a difference between identifying mechanical patterns and attacks that otherwise don't follow a scripted dance to the microsecond and can also target more randomly, and a strictly regimented music sheet like XIV does. It's not even comparable. And frankly they could even experiment with the former more especially in casual content in XIV, there is little to lose there, and see how it goes and feels different every time you do a fight.

Edit: also yes, I'd like to raid actual bases and dungeons, the trash was nice in older ARR and HW raids, even if it could certainly have benefited from improvements. The actual gate bosses (Fausts) were also a good way to test the players before they get further in. We have lost so much in terms of party resource management and attrition based gameplay... Modern XIV raiding feels like a glorified guitar hero to me. And they're not even trying anymore with player to player interactions and group play beyond healing, the rest is just individually solving body check DDR mechanics, which is very ironic considering that this slow push toward this individual paradigm has happened specifically because people complain that they wipe because "the healer didnt heal" (so tanks are now invincible) or "the tank failed to manage aggro", but now instead we got left with "we wiped because that ONE guy keeps failing THIS tower mechanic in chaotic and I can't even do anything about it".

[Red-thunder]

I don't know how FFXIV can change this as it's kinda what they are known for and I'm not sure they want to anyway as this is just their chosen niche.

This is why I tell people to just quit if they don't like the game. Nothing will change.

[TaleraRistain]

Some measure of randomness can be found. There are some places where you do get a little variety where more than one pattern is possible, and you need to watch for the trigger to see what it is. Overall though, it's like learning a piece of music or a dance. There's a lot of memorization there. But there's enjoyment in the execution and mastery. Same with raiding.

[Red-thunder]

Some measure of randomness can be found. There are some places where you do get a little variety where more than one pattern is possible, and you need to watch for the trigger to see what it is. Overall though, it's like learning a piece of music or a dance. There's a lot of memorization there. But there's enjoyment in the execution and mastery. Same with raiding.

The more people use the music analogy the more my assertion is proven.

There's a reason most people give up on learning a musical instrument. It is extremely dull. No one wants to repeat Chopin's Etude No. 5 for 3000 hours.

[TaleraRistain]

The more people use the music analogy the more my assertion is proven.

There's a reason most people give up on learning a musical instrument. It is extremely dull. No one wants to repeat Chopin's Etude No. 5 for 3000 hours.

Any kind of repetitive action is going to be dull. What about drills for a sports team? I can't imagine they find that enthralling, but in reinforces habits they need later on when playing through a live game. And having it all pay off while participating in the game can be enjoyable and satisfying.