patch 7.2 or next expansion

**Daralii** · 02-14-2025 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Red-thunder

It's obvious: they see criticism and discourse about the game as criticism and discourse around their personal identity. Therefore they feel personally attacked and react emotionally.

**genuine_stranger** · 02-15-2025 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Daralii

Are those people the "core audience" those large companies always boast about and seem to target?

Smart in a disturbing way, but smart indeed.

**Red-thunder** · 02-15-2025 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

Are those people the "core audience" those large companies always boast about and seem to target?

Smart in a disturbing way, but smart indeed.

It's honestly really sad because people like the presenters are typically those who graduate from top schools, having learned cutting-edge research in market psychology. They probably are pretty smart too. And nearly all of them go into the private sector to work for firms or go into academia to do more cutting-edge research on how to manipulate consumers.

Our society is structured in a way where the best and brightest, due to the incentives (high salaries) offered by firms, receive the best education and go out into the world to turn that education into a powerful engine for exploiting consumers. The best and brightest CS grads go into Google and Facebook to extract more rent from society. The best and brightest economists go into big 4 consulting firms to teach them how mass layoffs are actually good for your firm's bottom line. And well, the consumers themselves are too stupid to realize that the firm is never your friend lmao. We see this every day on these forums.

**Xapapetsu** · 02-15-2025 03:07 AM

The problem I'm seeing with the community is asking for something then being upset when they're given what they ask for. How many of you remember endwalker patch content? How many of you asked for an expansion zone? Now that there's an expansion zone coming, how many of you are complaining it's recycled content? Remember criterion? It was new content, maybe not implemented in the best way, but it got so much hate on release. Remember island sanctuary? Some liked it but overall there were complaints until it was deemed to abandon it. Chaotic is new and fresh, but most of the community refuses to engage with it just because it's deemed hard content. How many of you complained content was too easy, then complained dawntrail content is too hard. How many of you played back in stormblood and claimed it was the worst expansion ever due to the story, even though it was the most innovative expansion ever released. What are the devs suppose to do for you? It seems no matter what they do or try you will complain about it.

This new expansion zone is good for the health of the game, I think it should have been released at launch and maybe the devs can learn from that, but I don't see how you can get your way, then proceed to complain about getting what you asked for. The hate train you're on is getting annoying and it feels like the only reason you complain is to fit in with the community. I've got my own gripes with the game myself and feel there are things that could be done better and try to give constructive criticism when it comes to feedback, but I can also point out when the devs are doing things right, and patch 7.2 is doing things right.

**Valence** · 02-15-2025 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

The problem I'm seeing with the community is asking for something then being upset when they're given what they ask for. How many of you remember endwalker patch content? How many of you asked for an expansion zone?

I personally didn't. The only thing I've always asked for is for SE to make their base gameplay bricks actually engaging. A tall order, I know.
I have the feeling you're conflating completely different audiences and players into the same imaginary group. No wonder said group looks conflicted and self contradictory.

**Xapapetsu** · 02-15-2025 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Valence

I personally didn't. The only thing I've always asked for is for SE to make their base gameplay bricks actually engaging. A tall order, I know.
I have the feeling you're conflating completely different audiences and players into the same imaginary group. No wonder said group looks conflicted and self contradictory.

I mean if you're not part of the group that I described then you're in clear. You're free to complain about whatever aspects you see are a problem. My biggest issues are the people in the community who are asking for specific content then complaining about it when they get it. It would be fair if I complained about a crafter and gathering zone because I could care less about that content and will probably never engage with it, but I also won't complain about it since I know people are excited for it. For me it's useless content, but it's good for other people in the community.

**USAFJerrySo** · 02-16-2025 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

The problem I'm seeing with the community is asking for something then being upset when they're given what they ask for. How many of you remember endwalker patch content? How many of you asked for an expansion zone? Now that there's an expansion zone coming, how many of you are complaining it's recycled content? Remember criterion? It was new content, maybe not implemented in the best way, but it got so much hate on release. Remember island sanctuary? Some liked it but overall there were complaints until it was deemed to abandon it. Chaotic is new and fresh, but most of the community refuses to engage with it just because it's deemed hard content. How many of you complained content was too easy, then complained dawntrail content is too hard. How many of you played back in stormblood and claimed it was the worst expansion ever due to the story, even though it was the most innovative expansion ever released. What are the devs suppose to do for you? It seems no matter what they do or try you will complain about it.

This new expansion zone is good for the health of the game, I think it should have been released at launch and maybe the devs can learn from that, but I don't see how you can get your way, then proceed to complain about getting what you asked for. The hate train you're on is getting annoying and it feels like the only reason you complain is to fit in with the community. I've got my own gripes with the game myself and feel there are things that could be done better and try to give constructive criticism when it comes to feedback, but I can also point out when the devs are doing things right, and patch 7.2 is doing things right.

The problem is that the devs are listening to the loud minority, thus why the ff14 in a state the way it is today. People who actually complained that the MSQ for Dawntrail is too difficult are the people I'd want to avoid in real life because they already shown me that they quite at a sight of a little challenge, a quitter, & a lazy human that wants everything to be handed to them.

**Mawlzy** · 02-16-2025 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by USAFJerrySo

The problem is that the devs are listening to the loud minority, thus why the ff14 in a state the way it is today. People who actually complained that the MSQ for Dawntrail is too difficult are the people I'd want to avoid in real life because they already shown me that they quite at a sight of a little challenge, a quitter, & a lazy human that wants everything to be handed to them.

I imagine the feeling would be mutual.

**Xapapetsu** · 02-17-2025 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by USAFJerrySo

The problem is that the devs are listening to the loud minority, thus why the ff14 in a state the way it is today. People who actually complained that the MSQ for Dawntrail is too difficult are the people I'd want to avoid in real life because they already shown me that they quite at a sight of a little challenge, a quitter, & a lazy human that wants everything to be handed to them.

I'm not fully against the people who think the msq quests are too hard, I've spoken with a few of them and they eventually learned what to do, they were just very slow at figuring out mechanics and frustrated at the time. This I think is an issue with how the game has been designed for years. Move in, move out, 5 business days to get out of an AOE, no real incentive to actually learn how to play the game. Dawntrail dungeons are a good step in the right direction to fix that issue, slightly harder mechanics to get people to learn but not too hard so people lose hope on ever clearing it.

**ForteNightshade** · 02-16-2025 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

The problem I'm seeing with the community is asking for something then being upset when they're given what they ask for.

Except they weren't given what they asked for but instead a shallow or poorly executed variation of it. Hence the continued complains. You even go on to partially acknowledge that only to promptly gloss over it. So let's review

Exploratory Zone

I'd argue most people are generally pleased with what was shown during the last Live Letter. Yes, it's largely going to be the same as Eureka/Bozja, however that's more or less been the expectation. Those complaining now either never enjoyed that content to begin with, thus were always going to have a negative opinion of it or they're simply frustrated with other aspects of XIV like the stale gameplay. A major complaint even amongst those happy with Shade's Triangle is the content release schedule. It's been nearly a year into Dawntrail's lifespan and only now are we actually getting content with any sort of longevity that isn't raid specific. I suspect a fair number of people have reached that point of "too little, too late" where content they were once excited about they've soured on because it's simply taken far too long to release.

Criterion

They originally advertised Criterion as a split between casual, EX and Savage level difficulties. What we got was a casual version rendered so easy a toddler could complete it, an "EX" in name only that was closer to a lower tier Savage equivalent and a "Savage" mode that was a glorified achievement mode. In other words, they reneged on initial expectations and wound up only appealing to a very small demographic. Not at all helped was the downright horrendous reward structure. It's downright insulting you go through the frustrating difficulty of not making a single mistake only to be given an earring or housing item for your troubles. Even for the hardcore players who enjoyed this, a very common complaint was they found it boring because Savage does quite literally nothing different. They wanted new mechanics to prog, specifically to incentivize doing the actual Savage mode not going into "EX" for practice.

Meanwhile, the midcore to higher end casual players--which make up the overwhelming majority of players who would have any interest in content like this got nothing. Variant is not only comically easy, but is rendered completely pointless after four runs. Which can be completed in a couple hours at most. While Criterion "EX" was simply too difficult despite having the best rewards. Even if they were still pretty mid given the expected difficulty.

All in all, Criterion was hated because the devs pretty much catered to almost no one.

Island Sanctuary

Where do I even begin? Yoshida, in a rare example of terrible PR, widely overhyped what this was supposed to be. He outright stated the dev team was inspired by Animal Crossing, a statement that needed to be walked back several times due to how ridiculously misleading it was. It's truly baffling what they were trying to accomplish here. Who asked for what essentially began a glorified retainer venture? The devs kept insisting this was lifestyle content despite it having less depth than Farmville, a facebook mobile game that released in 2009. Even basic functions you'd expect from lifestyle content is absent. What you feed your animals doesn't matter, nothing you build has any real impact on the "farm" itself, tending to things like crops amounts to clicking on them once a day. Mentioning Island Sanctuary in even the same breath as Animal Crossing is, frankly, absurd.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody wanted anything remotely like what Island Sanctuary ended up being. Even those who did wind up enjoying it to some extent. Complaints were rampant because they didn't listen to a single thing people wanted from this sort of content. A piece of content so shallow they deliberately had to neuter their own gathering system just to give it some form of artificial longevity.

Chaotic

I'd argue the issue here is less the content itself, but the fact it's yet another raid when that's all they've been releasing. Which tends to build resentment when ten months into an expansion there's little else on offer. People are just fed up now.

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