Thread: patch 7.2 or next expansion

So, I will probably admittedly stay subscribed regardless, mostly because of friends, rather than the actual content itself. This is reason enough for me, personally. So I know the below may ring hollow for some..

But as far as looking exclusively at the content... 7.2 will really be the last chance for me, where the last sliver of optimism goes away. It's just generally not healthy to keep with the line of thinking "Maybe next expansion will be better". I would just rather treat this as something to hang with friends, whether that's helping them with content, or just having laughs on a mutual game... Rather than an actual game where I come here exclusively for the content.

I used to play exclusively for the content, regardless of what friends I may have made, but these days I am almost playing exclusively because of friends. It's just a state of... Not a very good game, but an OK social simulator (if you manage to make friends).

Originally Posted by Neft

some of yall need to sit down and think of something that YOU think would be innovating as in a unique never before done idea in X genre or in general (yeah, it's not easy).

The hell I do!? I am the consumer, I buy the stuff if it's fun and I go buy something else if it's not. Subs are not shares.

Originally Posted by Neft

I see a lot of people harping "7.2 is their last chance" "this content is their last chance"

but it's not just the content that needs to be fun and enjoyable, even if it's not inovated on fully, it still needs to be fun and enjoyable and honestly some of yall need to sit down and think of something that YOU think would be innovating as in a unique never before done idea in X genre or in general (yeah, it's not easy).

from an indie dev perspective everytime i have an idea that i havent seen in a game i've personally played i look it up and i find the idea in some game that flew under my radar and then i get to go and playtest that idea and usually i learn why its not used, because it makes a bad player experience.

so while the devs could literally add whatever they want, they have to question "is this a good idea" "will the players enjoy it"

The thing is... They literally don't need to do something never heard before, never seen before. They just need to look at what features they have in the game and how they can be expanded to other spaces of content as opposed to keeping them as insular features. This is actually one of the biggest issues, and one of the biggest spaces where innovation can come from.

Biggest example is applying the Logos/Lost Action & Essences system to future deep dungeons. You've suddenly added a layer of complexity, or another layer of design that the developers can work around. Transforms the gameplay element of deep dungeons quite a bit... Using already existing features in the game.

Asking a question whether players will enjoy it is crucial, but it's also a pointless thing to hypothesize about in this situation given there are plenty of unhappy people, so they aren't even asking the question to begin with - and even if they are, they are using it as a crutch rather than something to help catapult the game.. Which if you are asking that question it should always be with the latter in mind.

I've already told myself I'll play at least until the end of DT no matter what comes. I am not nearly jaded enough with the game to leave it behind, and unlike a lot of people here, I'm not that much of a fan of treadmill content, so I don't hinge a lot of my enjoyment on forays. My "MMO grind" years are behind me, unless I really wanna do the grind or the reward is especially appealing (not gear, but mounts, glam, etc.) Having said that, even with no personal stake in whether or not forays exist, I'm glad they're back. I understand that they're a very good way to keep people who do want more traditional MMO gameplay busy until at least the next patch, and I can't blame people for enjoying the system, even if it's not my cup of tea. I might not like it, but I can accept that FF14 is healthier as a whole with forays, so it's good that they're back.

With me enjoying most of the content that is there even now, my enjoyment is mostly based on where the MSQ goes. 7.1 was... alright. It had issues, obviously, but I could tolerate it better than 7.0. And might I even say... there were parts that mildly intrigued me? Obviously, I'd like to go back to full-blown enjoyment, of course. So again, my fingers are crossed. I genuinely disliked a good chunk of 4.0's story, but loved 4.x, so it's not impossible, but it will require them to actually look at it in a serious way and take the critique to heart.

I might try to get in on forays while the iron is hot, though. I may not be the type to grind for grind's sake, but I like the idea of a sort of community event thing, and forays facilitate that feeling, so it should be enjoyable for that reason alone.

Originally Posted by Auro_Seldaris

That's not my job. As a consumer, I can tell you what you give me that I don't like. (This is ignoring the many ideas that people have posted in this forum for years now.) However, it's not my place to do CSIII's job for them. If they can't think of ideas, then maybe they're in the wrong field.

True innovators try to anticipate customer demand, not react to it, as best exemplified by this quote from Steve Jobs:



He even mentions that Henry Ford said, "If I has asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me 'I want a faster horse'! " The customer can only tell you when they are not being serviced fully, when their needs aren't being met, and what they think is wrong. They can't give you the solution. That's not even their job. It's yours as a developer. As Ford points out, they might even give you the wrong answer to the problem.

Chris Wilson from Path of Exile said something similar, namely that customers are very good at identifying and conveying what they don't like, but are generally bad at coming up with ways to fix them. He and his successors have a stubborn streak on that front(the things people don't like are part of their vision, so get lost if you can't put up with it), but he's not wrong on that front.

Originally Posted by Daralii

Chris Wilson from Path of Exile said something similar, namely that customers are very good at identifying and conveying what they don't like, but are generally bad at coming up with ways to fix them. He and his successors have a stubborn streak on that front(the things people don't like are part of their vision, so get lost if you can't put up with it), but he's not wrong on that front.

In general it makes sense, it's a job right? They will sit down and give it a lot of thought, bounce it off their coworkers and boss, do it for a living, have a responsibility to be educated in the subject matter, etc.


You'd hope they do better lol

Originally Posted by Neft

I see a lot of people harping "7.2 is their last chance" "this content is their last chance"

but it's not just the content that needs to be fun and enjoyable, even if it's not inovated on fully, it still needs to be fun and enjoyable and honestly some of yall need to sit down and think of something that YOU think would be innovating as in a unique never before done idea in X genre or in general (yeah, it's not easy).

from an indie dev perspective everytime i have an idea that i havent seen in a game i've personally played i look it up and i find the idea in some game that flew under my radar and then i get to go and playtest that idea and usually i learn why its not used, because it makes a bad player experience.

so while the devs could literally add whatever they want, they have to question "is this a good idea" "will the players enjoy it"

STOP WAITING FOR THIS GAME TO GET GOOD LMAO

Just stop



Log into MogStation, then cancel your sub. That's it.

This game will never get good. They'll never ditch their formula. We know CBU3 is literally working on two other games AT LEAST. This game is their side project, they DON'T WANT to invest in this game.

I get kind of annoyed when people make valid criticism of systems and then another person comes along and all like "well what would YOU do to fix the game, huh??" Wow, you really got us there, we hadn't thought about any solutions ourselves! /s

I've been around these forums for awhile now and in that time I've seen plenty of well thought out and constructive feedback that people clearly put a lot of time and energy into writing. Threads about job design are full of people detailing things they like and dislike and the changes they'd like to see. Threads about housing are full of people talking about what they want to see changed and implemented. Threads about the story of the game are full of analysis of story themes and character motivations (or the lack of them) and ideas that would have made the plot of Dawntrail 10x more interesting. Yeah you also get some comments from people who are just here to be haters, but the vast majority of people are talking in here because we both care a lot about this game and we're angry about the state it's in and want to be better.

Nobody is seriously asking for some insanely creative brand-new never-before-seen new feature. We're asking for pretty basic stuff, if you ask me. Better job design, better housing system, better UI, better storage and glamor system, fixed character models from the botched graphics "update," better graphical settings for people who get headaches from too much bloom effects, a story and characters worth caring about again, stuff like that. I don't even need Square-Enix to totally upend it's established formula (though it could stand to experiment a bit more for sure), I just want what we already have to be better.