Cut the ability to queue as a group in Frontline

[DioK]

If you cared about winning, you could also just find a group of players who also want to do that and form a premade.

I still just find it laughable that in a game of 72 players, the problem is somehow the 4 players that want to play together.

I've said this a couple of times, myself. Rather than complaining about premades, people should just try forming their own premades. It's not something that requires special skill.

Let's suppose that SE does get rid of the ability to group-up for Frontlines. First, you're absolutely going to get a lot of people complaining that they can no longer play together with their friends. Second, you're still going to get destroyed by teams that just have better players because, regardless if they are in a premade or not, they know how to read the flow of battle, figure out what to do, and then execute on that. They know how to look at their map; they know how to stay grouped; they're better at using their skills; they're better at prioritizing objectives and targets; and they don't just run away from every single fight just cause 1 or 2 frontline melees charge forward. At that point, there's really nothing left except to accept your own deficiencies, and I say this as someone who knows that he sucks at the game. However, I'm not going to cry to get rid of premades. I'm just going to try to get better at my own playing.

[Exmo]

The premades who are the problem are people in discord calls whose primary goal is to stomp solo players. It's totally disingenuous to pretend players can achieve the same just by queuing into FL with a buddy.

Besides, "just make your own premade" doesn't stop premades from being a problem. It just makes it so other players suffer instead of you. Some modes are absolutely wretched with premade supremacy atm. If you make it practically mandatory to queue to FL outside of an organized premade, the mode will just die a slow death. The most effective solution is to target the obvious problem.

[Atreus]

Unfortunately duty roulette content is made with the opposite mentality in mind, and Frontlines is roulette content.

And yet all roulettes let you jump in with a party, so what's your point? It's fine to have daily roulette rewards, it's not fine for it be efficient to just AFK the game away quicker.

[OliviaLugria]

The most effective solution is to target the obvious problem.

You’re so totally right. People should stop sucking at Frontlines. If we get really spicy, maybe even stop incentivizing it with their reward structure.

[Atreus]

The premades who are the problem are people in discord calls whose primary goal is to stomp solo players. It's totally disingenuous to pretend players can achieve the same just by queuing into FL with a buddy.

If you want to not be disingenuous yourself, then advocate for better matchmaking. SE has made changes to it a lot over the years, and last I checked premades were supposed to be divvied up. Which premades you get is RNG.

Besides, "just make your own premade" doesn't stop premades from being a problem. It just makes it so other players suffer instead of you. Some modes are absolutely wretched with premade supremacy atm. If you make it practically mandatory to queue to FL outside of an organized premade, the mode will just die a slow death. The most effective solution is to target the obvious problem.

You make it a problem, and ever since its release, Frontline hasn't been "dying a slow death". It was pretty damn active even when 8-mans were possible.

[Mawlzy]

If you want to not be disingenuous yourself, then advocate for better matchmaking. SE has made changes to it a lot over the years, and last I checked premades were supposed to be divvied up. Which premades you get is RNG.



You make it a problem, and ever since its release, Frontline hasn't been "dying a slow death". It was pretty damn active even when 8-mans were possible.

Is that actually true? I'm aware of no FL matchmaking that does that, but might have missed something.

[Exmo]

You’re so totally right. People should stop sucking at Frontlines. If we get really spicy, maybe even stop incentivizing it with their reward structure.

No player, no matter how personally skilled, can independently beat an organized premade. No team of solos, no matter how collectively skilled, can beat an alliance of premades. It's not a question of skill, it's a question of artificial advantages. Besides, the people who hop into pvp discord VCs with their premade static are not actually really skilled at the game. This is clear when you see them queue in solo and perform completely average nine times out of ten. The skilled solo player outplays anyone player in the premade in a fair fight. That's why VC premades don't like fair fights.

[Exmo]

If you want to not be disingenuous yourself, then advocate for better matchmaking. SE has made changes to it a lot over the years, and last I checked premades were supposed to be divvied up. Which premades you get is RNG.

I have been advocating for better matchmaking. Look at the first page in this thread. Like like there's really no point taking to you :/

[Atreus]

I have been advocating for better matchmaking. Look at the first page in this thread. Like like there's really no point taking to you :/

Better matchmaking means skill-based, not RNG tossing two sweaty groups against a few groups of casuals.

Buddy, I could care less about one comment you made on the first page when your other thread is all "wah delete premades". I'd rather not be talking about this either, but here we are.

Is that actually true? I'm aware of no FL matchmaking that does that, but might have missed something.

It's supposed to. Apart from my recollection of that era and "things Yoshida says"™, here's what I dug up on the research:

The last time they adjusted matchmaking (in extremely vague terms) was 5.2.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9c08bed75d230d

The live letter digest for that patch cites: "The matchmaking algorithm was reconstructed to group teams more equally, and testing has also been completed. It’ll be implemented in Patch 5.2, so please wait until then."

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/414393

This followed 5.18, where they introduced forced freelance for everyone, following the big fiasco in Onsal with people in Grand Companies doing mass solo queue syncs.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9c08bed75d230d

[Mawlzy]

Better matchmaking means skill-based, not RNG tossing two sweaty groups against a few groups of casuals.

Buddy, I could care less about one comment you made on the first page when your other thread is all "wah delete premades". I'd rather not be talking about this either, but here we are.



It's supposed to. Apart from my recollection of that era and "things Yoshida says"™, here's what I dug up on the research:

The last time they adjusted matchmaking (in extremely vague terms) was 5.2.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9c08bed75d230d

The live letter digest for that patch cites: "The matchmaking algorithm was reconstructed to group teams more equally, and testing has also been completed. It’ll be implemented in Patch 5.2, so please wait until then."

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/414393

This followed 5.18, where they introduced forced freelance for everyone, following the big fiasco in Onsal with people in Grand Companies doing mass solo queue syncs.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9c08bed75d230d

I'm still puzzled. They can't balance FL based on jobs because one can switch jobs, there's no skill-based MMR, and I've seen no evidence premades are balanced between teams. Admittedly this last point would be difficult to determine assuming there is a significant population of groups "just playing with friends" rather than recruiting meta stacks via the many LFG channels on Discord.