Thematic issues. Why all the sci fi.

[PercibelTheren]

I understand that sci-fi has always been part of FF. Yes, Allagans and Garleans are a thing. My complaint about the sci-fi is that the different looks of it are so incongruous. Allagan tech looks different from Garlean tech. Then you have the NieR raids which, once again, look completely different. And Dawntrail stuff looks like modern "cyberpunk" (which is mostly just cyber, very little punk).

And I understand the argument that if we have all this tech, why are some city states still using medieval ships? Why do people in them dress like middle ages peasants?

[VeyaAkemi]

And I understand the argument that if we have all this tech, why are some city states still using medieval ships? Why do people in them dress like middle ages peasants?

1. Garlemald was literally at war with the rest of the world until very recently, and therefor unwilling to share their technology.

2. Allagan tech is poorly understood by the everyman and generally (justifiably) seen as dangerous.

3. Nier raids literally exist in another reality(well, shard), they are also crossover stuff so it's questionable how much it should count.

4. Sharlayan was isolationist until very recently.

5 Alexandria was literally another reality(shard) until extremely recently.

6. Time bubble bullshit preventing things from dots 1, 4 and 5 from changing the world in meaningful ways.

I really feel half the complaints here are caused by the time bubble, an idea they decided onto over 10 years ago and it gets dumber and dumber the more is added to the world.

Even if you ignore Alexandria and electrope specifically, I find the mix of classical fantasy and modern/sci-fi in FFXIV a bit off. The fact that you can have a knight in a suit of armour and a catgirl in streetwear standing next to each other makes the game feel pretty aesthetically inconsistent.

To me the big thing is that glamour exists as a lore thing, that alone justifies so much of what are aesthetic inconsistencies, the knight in a suit of armor and the catgirl in streetwear could be wearing the exact same equipment as far as we know, but they have vastly different aesthetic tastes, so they choose to use the common illusion magic of the setting to express themselves in very different ways, and for that, both sides only need to exist in the setting.

It's also why glam limitations per job are incredibly stupid even in lore, glamour is literally illusion magic, there should be nothing stopping anyone from casting the image of anything over anything else.

[BigCheez]

To me the big thing is that glamour exists as a lore thing, that alone justifies so much of what are aesthetic inconsistencies, the knight in a suit of armor and the catgirl in streetwear could be wearing the exact same equipment as far as we know, but they have vastly different aesthetic tastes, so they choose to use the common illusion magic of the setting to express themselves in very different ways, and for that, both sides only need to exist in the setting.

It's also why glam limitations per job are incredibly stupid even in lore, glamour is literally illusion magic, there should be nothing stopping anyone from casting the image of anything over anything else.

Glamour isn't the problem. I'm fine with people fighting in non-combat gear. Armour in FF has traditionally been mostly on the lighter to non-existent side. The problem for me is that it feels like we have Steiner and Tifa in the same universe and it's aesthetically confusing.

[Valence]

Glamour isn't the problem. I'm fine with people fighting in non-combat gear. Armour in FF has traditionally been mostly on the lighter to non-existent side. The problem for me is that it feels like we have Steiner and Tifa in the same universe and it's aesthetically confusing.

This all tends to show that appreciation of thematic dissonance mainly lies in the eye of the beholder. I have a hard time dealing with a tank running a dungeon in a bikini unlike someone wearing a science fiction suit that comes from somewhere in the world. But I guess the bikini can be waved away by glamour right?

[Gwenkatsu]

And I understand the argument that if we have all this tech, why are some city states still using medieval ships? Why do people in them dress like middle ages peasants?

Because the Sci-Fi technology sucks.

When Garlemald attacked Eorzea with battle mechs and laser guns, they were repelled by axeman and magicians. When Garlemald threw a moon(!) with a terrible demon inside at their enemies, it was repelled by a guy with a staff.
When Alexandria's Star Wars Army attacked Shaaloani, they were repelled by some cowboys with rubber bullets /s/, and a guy with a lance.

Why would the classical Fantasy population want to use a technology they do not understand, and which is proven to be inferior to their axes and fireballs?

That being said, I'm absolutely ok with some level of Sci-Fi in FF14 - Magitek, Allagan, time travel, and the like. But a future mega city with neon lights and Starbucks? That's just a big no in my book.

[Basteala]

Because the Sci-Fi technology sucks.

When Garlemald attacked Eorzea with battle mechs and laser guns, they were repelled by axeman and magicians. When Garlemald threw a moon(!) with a terrible demon inside at their enemies, it was repelled by a guy with a staff.
When Alexandria's Star Wars Army attacked Shaaloani, they were repelled by some cowboys with rubber bullets /s/, and a guy with a lance.

Why would the classical Fantasy population want to use a technology they do not understand, and which is proven to be inferior to their axes and fireballs?

That being said, I'm absolutely ok with some level of Sci-Fi in FF14 - Magitek, Allagan, time travel, and the like. But a future mega city with neon lights and Starbucks? That's just a big no in my book.

This is actually an interesting point. I think the "magicians" are being understated here a little bit. In a combative sense, the gap between the two isn't that large, if at all.

Which might make sense. All magitek does is manipulate the six elements of aether to create a desired result--this is literally no different than what a mage does. Magitek devices ultimately just create a surrogate body to manipulate the aether that Garleans can't (obviously past a certain size like transport vessels this becomes an entirely different argument, but at a footman and fireball vs walker argument it kind of pans out).

You can bypass the character limit by posting the correct limit and then editing and adding the rest to your post.

You are my new favorite person on these forums.

[Rinoa_353]

This is actually an interesting point. I think the "magicians" are being understated here a little bit. In a combative sense, the gap between the two isn't that large, if at all.

Which might make sense. All magitek does is manipulate the six elements of aether to create a desired result--this is literally no different than what a mage does. Magitek devices ultimately just create a surrogate body to manipulate the aether that Garleans can't (obviously past a certain size like transport vessels this becomes an entirely different argument, but at a footman and fireball vs walker argument it kind of pans out).



You are my new favorite person on these forums.

You're welcome lol.


To add to the tread topic, Electrope technology is also magic based where the circuits imprinted on the Electrope is based off the Arcanist runes from the South Sea Isles. So it actually fits into the lore, it just looks like Mass Effect but they explain the underlying concept of how it functions. This is speculation but I think it's reasonable that the Source would also have deposits of Electrope since the Reflections are all based off of the Source. It's just that Allag existed and developed their advanced technology that didn't need Electrope since holograms, robots and spaceships exist in the Source from Allag without Electrope. Another theory could be Allag did use Electrope in their technology and maybe exhausted all deposits since their empire spanned nearly the entire planet at their height and the Fourth Umbral Calamity may have buried any remaining deposits deeper underground perhaps?

[Basteala]

You're welcome lol.


To add to the tread topic, Electrope technology is also magic based where the circuits imprinted on the Electrope is based off the Arcanist runes from the South Sea Isles. So it actually fits into the lore, it just looks like Mass Effect but they explain the underlying concept of how it functions. This is speculation but I think it's reasonable that the Source would also have deposits of Electrope since the Reflections are all based off of the Source. It's just that Allag existed and developed their advanced technology that didn't need Electrope since holograms, robots and spaceships exist in the Source from Allag without Electrope. Another theory could be Allag did use Electrope in their technology and maybe exhausted all deposits since their empire spanned nearly the entire planet at their height and the Fourth Umbral Calamity may have buried any remaining deposits deeper underground perhaps?

Good points regarding the application of arcanistry to electrope--I forgot about that. Where Electrope is concerned I feel there are two possibilities--either the fact that there is electrope somewhere on the Source as you're saying, or it could be a side effect of the shard becoming so heavily aspected towards lightning, thus putting the conquest and submission of lightning and stone into a slight imbalance, allowing certain stone to become what we now know as electrope.

The theory you have with Allag is interesting, especially given the striking similarity between electrope's application and the art of aetherochemistry. The fact that the calamity the Allagans caused being the calamity of Earth might really give that theory legs.

Those are some very interesting thoughts.

[Supersnow845]

The thing that I have noticed is most off about aesthetics and technology (which I inherently have no problem with) is the fact that eorzea was originally said to be a “technological backwater” overly reliant on traditional magic compared to the rest of the world.

That is really only true comparing it to garlemald before it collapsed. Hingashi and orthard are pretty much just medieval far east (like how eorzea is medieval Europe), thavnir is medieval India and the new world is like “early colonialism” Americas. Besides garlemald who is more technologically advanced than eorzea because everywhere seems to be stagnating

[Basteala]

Allagan tech used to be this ancient mysterious technology that was hard to recreate and was LOST for a reason, now it seems that the plot farts out tech and modern things on a whim. THERE IS NO REASON IN THIS GAME TO HAVE MIDDLE-AGE VILLAGE TYPE SOCIETIES IF THIS IS THE CASE. Can't any of you people understand world building and how decisions like this affect it in the story and in the world they are supposedly trying to portray us?

Ah hell with it, I'll ball. I enjoy a good lore debate. Taking this separately because character limits suck.

So Allagan technology...yes. It was lost for two very, very good reasons: The destruction caused by the earthquakes of the Fourth Umbral Calamity, as well as the destructive movement against all knowledge created by mankind's panic in this Calamity's wake.

It is very difficult to recreate for multiple reasons. From what I recall--Allagan metal is difficult to destroy, but that also means its difficult to manipulate. The technology to manipulate that metal likely either does not exist, or at least does not on a widespread level.

However, there's also the matter of aetherochemistry which--in case you are not aware--is the application of magical arts to technology to enhance that technology's performance. In other words, to recreate this technology, you need not only the technological knowhow to do so, but you also need a competent enough mage to imbue the necessary magics into the machine in question. Competent. Mages. In the Seventh Astral Era. As far as humanity is concerned--from what we see in game--your most widespread job crystal jobs in FF14 for magic that isn't heavily restricted are most likely Sage and Blue Mage. Black and White magic is highly regulated, Scholar, Pictomancer and Red Mage are borderline dead arts that are at the very beginnings of revival--and Red Magic in and of itself is very difficult to get into because you essentially need to be a skilled mage who can lift. Summoner benefits from an Ul'dahn initiative of taking those who have faced a primal and lived with their wits to tell about it but this is kind of a limited time offer with the Beast Tribes no longer feeling the need to resort to primal summoning by and large--could that change in the future, sure? But only if the knowledge provided by the Ascians survives that long.

So where does that leave us? A bunch of Thaumaturges, Arcanists, and the odd Conjurer. You're basically, charitably, asking a bunch of level 30s to make Allagan tech run. And to be fair, you may have had some such people in those positions doing just that, especially Arcanists, but so as the mage is limited, so too is the technology that is created as a result. And this is before learning how all the technology works, and explaining to laymen how to use it. People are stubborn about their ways, look at real life--we can't even get off QWERTY keyboards, for God's sake.