Ninja is unfun and has too many issues, please address.

[Divinemights]

Is this thread a Frontline opinion or a CC one, 'cause that's rather important.

I don't know which environment OP is describing and don't think there will be an overhaul on Ninja kit until patch 8.1.
My post is just to tune down 5th poster's upselling of Ninja tool kit.
I only thinks Shukuchi need to be fix, but I do agree this new "latency fix" makes current Ninja kit outdated and awkward.

[Divinemights]

Range dominate in CC? What is this timeline you're playing in? I want in...

From time line where I get 4 characters to Crystal rank last season
I admitted, I am not a hardcore Crystal Conflict and hop to different character once i capped 450 tome.
Not going to debate you with Range on this as perspective is different
I know you play Machinest and all your concern is from Machinest's perspective.
I am not going to spend time to debate you on this becuase my persepctive is more from Meele and Tank
Debate between two opposite spectrum is waste of time; therefore I never participate in your discussion about range, isnt it?
This is about Ninja kit hopefully for next 8.1
Like I said, i just hope for a minor adjustment on Shukuchi

[Bureda]

Is this thread a Frontline opinion or a CC one, 'cause that's rather important.

The mode doesn't matter if the kit itself is flawed. So, no, it's not important.

[Valence]

From time line where I get 4 characters to Crystal rank last season
I admitted, I am not a hardcore Crystal Conflict and hop to different character once i capped 450 tome.
Not going to debate you with Range on this as perspective is different
I know you play Machinest and all your concern is from Machinest's perspective.
I am not going to spend time to debate you on this becuase my persepctive is more from Meele and Tank
Debate between two opposite spectrum is waste of time; therefore I never participate in your discussion about range, isnt it?
This is about Ninja kit hopefully for next 8.1
Like I said, i just hope for a minor adjustment on Shukuchi

I mean sure, I'm biased (I do not just play MCH actually), but literally every tier list I've seen by way better players than me (including JP players) has literally put most of the red ranged jobs down at the bottom, so it begs some questions. I know the JP meta used to be much more different in CC back in endwalker, but right now... things seem a lot more aligned between regions to me.

And again, I do hope they fix all the janky ninja delays. I just can't stand how obnoxious they have made Seiton on the other hand. This LB needs to be kneecapped, and I'm saying this as a DNC that literally abuses this every time I play with a NIN.

[OliviaLugria]

For of all, any action/spell force you to choose between offense and defense is not a good action/spell

Why? I see it raising the versatility and skill ceiling of a job, and ninja is not unique in this design philosophy.

If you don’t like jobs with that versatility, go play the ones that don’t.

[IceEyes]

As nin main in PvP i agree with a moment inconvenience of use shukuchi and assasinate, but in other i dont understand the problem, probably beacuse i didnt playing ranking games. Raiju is OP ability, Hyosho with nice timing сan do a lot of damage in target what opened after guard. Huton is abilitie not for the offensive, but for trade the damage in range.

In my vision of ninja concept, the ninja is not a killer, but rather a support damage dealer class. He is not very good on his own, but it does provide good single target pressure and works well when paired with a monk or RDM.

Although, I agree that the "support ninja" is a strange concept. But, I like it. This is very close to the jobs what I enjoy. You have a many options, but few are extremely effective and narrowly targeted. That making ninja very universal option in any pick, but no best in any position.

ps. This is probably why his LB is broken a bit. To give nin more value as a teamwork class.

[Bureda]

As nin main in PvP i agree with a moment inconvenience of use shukuchi and assasinate, but in other i dont understand the problem, probably beacuse i didnt playing ranking games. Raiju is OP ability, Hyosho with nice timing сan do a lot of damage in target what opened after guard. Huton is abilitie not for the offensive, but for trade the damage in range.

In my vision of ninja concept, the ninja is not a killer, but rather a support damage dealer class. He is not very good on his own, but it does provide good single target pressure and works well when paired with a monk or RDM.

Although, I agree that the "support ninja" is a strange concept. But, I like it. This is very close to the jobs what I enjoy. You have a many options, but few are extremely effective and narrowly targeted. That making ninja very universal option in any pick, but no best in any position.

ps. This is probably why his LB is broken a bit. To give nin more value as a teamwork class.

I only speak from Ranked perspective when talking about balance and the fun of the job. Stealth Just doesn't work properly because this season they made every ability do damage and if someone targets you at max distance and use an ability your stealth is just ruined. They have 5 yalms of advantage on you. If you try to go stealth from a distance you can't use it because you move too slow.

Huton is another useless ability because the buff disappears when the shield is used up. You only use Huton when you're pressured and that shield disappears instantly, so the buff doesn't exist essentially.

Hyosho takes too long to land and Raiju Animations make it a bit better.

To use doton you have to be in a position of vulnerability.

The whole kit doesn't mesh well.

[Themarvin]

They are friggen tanks... no boost or gain needed for Frontline.

[Haeven]

I think if Ninjas are risky, they should have great reward.

[JuneBuggy]

My main complaint with ninja this patch is how long the rotation is to get to Zeppo (along with all the other problems that have been mentioned since the job rework). Most NINs will usually have a mudra on "queue" so it essentially locks me out of Zeppo until I've unloaded my full kit and by then Zeppo has already expired. Before it wasn't the case when the rotation was much simpler with either a Raiju -> Mug -> Hyosho or some combination of those skills.