Are Ultimates a major contributor to Job Design issues?

[Supersnow845]

I doubt it, but they did expand the range of some abilities. This happened because they wanted to experiment with different arena designs, and p10 was the first to fall under that category. It was a pretty common occurrence for DPS to die after Divinding Wings 2, especially if mits were missing or healers didn't sprint. I wish we had Aetherial shift back then...LOL.

If people missed mitigation that’s a positioning issue that’s on the party to fix, not just call it unfixable and make all bubbles raidwide heals

[Kohashi]

If people missed mitigation that’s a positioning issue that’s on the party to fix, not just call it unfixable and make all bubbles raidwide heals

In theory, yes, practically, it tells me you never did the fight, yet you comment.

So let me explain. Aside from the big damage that the initial hit was doing, the person tasked with breaking the webs would also get a heavy dot. Unless you had a healer on the DPS platform, the likelihood of them dying was pretty high (even with mits), especially early in the tier when you did not have BiS nor echo.

On top of it, the entire fight was a healer check.

@Valence
"P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it)."

It's impossible to change somebody's made-up mind nor do I really care all that much. While you are clearly the best person in the universe who can do every single mechanic flawlessly and without a sweat, the reality was completely different in PF and with average people doing that fight. Even if you are that good, the fights are never designed for the 0.01% of people but for the average who also makes a lot of mistakes.

PS: please join my re-clear parties. I am sick and tired to re-prog every single damn week, M3s and m4s with ppl in pf that can't still do those stupid fights after so many damn months.

[Supersnow845]

In theory, yes, practically, it tells me you never did the fight, yet you comment.

So let me explain. Aside from the big damage that the initial hit was doing, the person tasked with breaking the webs would also get a heavy dot. Unless you had a healer on the DPS platform, the likelihood of them dying was pretty high (even with mits), especially early in the tier when you did not have BiS nor echo.

On top of it, the entire fight was a healer check.

@Valence
"P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it)."

It's impossible to change somebody's made-up mind nor do I really care all that much. While you are clearly the best person in the universe who can do every single mechanic flawlessly and without a sweat, the reality was completely different in PF and with average people doing that fight. Even if you are that good, the fights are never designed for the 0.01% of people but for the average who also makes a lot of mistakes.

PS: please join my re-clear parties. I am sick and tired to re-prog every single damn week, M3s and m4s with ppl in pf that can't still do those stupid fights after so many damn months.

“It tells me you didn’t do the fight”

It’s really easy to act like you have a point when you can just accuse others of not doing the fight.

You do not need stupidly large bubbles for P10S unless you were stingy on heals that stuck to the person needing healing, as to the point you directed towards valence acting like simplification is always justified because it makes harder content more accessible is just end endless self perpetuating cycle

And let’s say you actually did need the giant bubbles (you don’t), 1 savage fight is not justification to completely alter something as fundamental as bubble size to make it so ridiculous as to be comical

[Kohashi]

If strats were about sometimes getting roles split between the two platforms due to role stacks, stacks would not kill you. Healers could preshield the party. Support could pre mitigate. Healers could heal everybody once they were back mid as well, since nothing was literally going over HP threshold until then. Those mechanics were primarily body checks before anything, like most mechanics in this fight except HH. Alternatively platforms could also be made all light party based (see hector) if one really needed anyway. I'd actually kill to have funky arena layouts again where it's not just about a 8 man stack to heal and mitigate for once. I do miss Alex 4 or Alex 12 for this for example.

yes yes, all theory and none of the practice. Sure you could do that and yet they would still die especially mages. And mind you Dividing Wings 2 came right after Bonds 3 and PF could never do that shit clean... like ever.

As for Hector, he also had DPS right, and support left, so I am not sure what exactly you mean by light parties. Please link me to the raidplan/ video where he suggest Light parties or where this was done in such a manner.

In theory, you could do it since you have 1 DPS and 1 support picked, in reality, it would have been a shit show with people having to adjust based on prio. (snek memes prio much? and P8s trauma dumping that PF could also never get right?)

“It tells me you didn’t do the fight”

It’s really easy to act like you have a point when you can just accuse others of not doing the fight.

No offense but you are talking out of your ass now. Perhaps you did P10 normal but it was nothing like that the savage counterpart. P10s was a strong healer check. If you are up for the challenge and you think your comically large bubble would have covered all you needed, please consider doing Min Ilvl no Echo prog in P10S and get back to me after.

Also based on how you post and how pro you are, it should be a piece of cake no?

[Valence]

And mind you Dividing Wings 2 came right after Bonds 3 and PF could never do that shit clean... like ever.

Statics weren't much better off because Bonds 3 was a shit mechanic and people kept dying to it way too much. But the reason people failed was because of the DDR, not because of healing. Everybody is on the middle platform for Bonds 3 and the little cleaves before it, so it's not a matter of healing and mitigation range. Bonds 3 was one of the biggest blockers for the simple reason that it was a body check and Dividing Wings coming right after could barely be salvaged with a timed healer LB3 in the case of casualties (not always possible), since this mechanic was also a body check. This part had little to do with healing/mitigation.

As for Hector, he also had DPS right, and support left, so I am not sure what exactly you mean by light parties. Please link me to the raidplan/ video where he suggest Light parties or where this was done in such a manner.

In theory, you could do it since you have 1 DPS and 1 support picked, in reality, it would have been a shit show with people having to adjust based on prio. (snek memes prio much? and P8s trauma dumping that PF could also never get right?)

Hector had everybody on the left platform for Bonds 1.
If you mean for Dividing Wings 2 I do not remember having a single situation with 2 healers on the same side platform. We always had one on the left, and one on the right. It is possible all the statics I did it with did some prio, I do not remember at all. If you're complaining that this is too hard to do in PF, then again, this isn't a problem of healing and mitigation range, but a DDR mechanical problem.

[Kohashi]

Statics weren't much better off because Bonds 3 was a shit mechanic and people kept dying to it way too much. But the reason people failed was because of the DDR, not because of healing. Everybody is on the middle platform for Bonds 3 and the little cleaves before it, so it's not a matter of healing and mitigation range. Bonds 3 was one of the biggest blockers for the simple reason that it was a body check and Dividing Wings coming right after could barely be salvaged with a timed healer LB3 in the case of casualties (not always possible), since this mechanic was also a body check. This part had little to do with healing/mitigation.



Hector had everybody on the left platform for Bonds 1.
If you mean for Dividing Wings 2 I do not remember having a single situation with 2 healers on the same side platform. We always had one on the left, and one on the right. It is possible all the statics I did it with did some prio, I do not remember at all. If you're complaining that this is too hard to do in PF, then again, this isn't a problem of healing and mitigation range, but a DDR mechanical problem.

My dude, who was even talking about Bonds 1? Was it ever mentioned? at all? Why would you even discuss how Bonds 1 was solved when the entire conversation was about Dividing Wings 2 which came after Bonds 3?

For Bonds 1, you HAD to be on the same platform because you had spread into either partner or role. You don't have any idea what you are talking about after all, are you? Pfff figures

[Valence]

My dude, who was even talking about Bonds 1? Was it ever mentioned? at all? Why would you even discuss how Bonds 1 was solved when the entire conversation was about Dividing Wings 2 which came after Bonds 3?

For Bonds 1, you HAD to be on the same platform because you had spread into either partner or role. You don't have any idea what you are talking about after all, are you? Pfff figures

Nothing was mentioned about what specific mechanic was being discussed in the first replies, and only that the side platforms were. If I missed a mention somewhere then I apologize.
Bonds 1 also happens over the side platforms with the whole party/LPs. I just wanted to make sure because Hector was also mentioned, and a lot of people still preferred the 2 platform strat for it as they considered the 1 platform strat to be "too risky especially in PF", notably within the first month of release. I think you're the one being confused here, or maybe you didn't play the tier on release? Recheck guides for the fight and you'll see that Bonds 1 can be solved over 2 platforms as well, which people eventually started to dismiss past a point.
-> I just checked your profile actually, you cleared the fight in October, 3 months after release... no wonder.

You'll be free to call me whatever scrub or filthy casual that has no idea what they're talking about next tier since I'm retiring from savage, but until now, unfortunately, yes, I have done Anabaseios savage at release...

( did you just assume my gender? )

[Supersnow845]

yes yes, all theory and none of the practice. Sure you could do that and yet they would still die especially mages. And mind you Dividing Wings 2 came right after Bonds 3 and PF could never do that shit clean... like ever.

As for Hector, he also had DPS right, and support left, so I am not sure what exactly you mean by light parties. Please link me to the raidplan/ video where he suggest Light parties or where this was done in such a manner.

In theory, you could do it since you have 1 DPS and 1 support picked, in reality, it would have been a shit show with people having to adjust based on prio. (snek memes prio much? and P8s trauma dumping that PF could also never get right?)




No offense but you are talking out of your ass now. Perhaps you did P10 normal but it was nothing like that the savage counterpart. P10s was a strong healer check. If you are up for the challenge and you think your comically large bubble would have covered all you needed, please consider doing Min Ilvl no Echo prog in P10S and get back to me after.

Also based on how you post and how pro you are, it should be a piece of cake no?

Again it’s really easy to just pretend like I didn’t do the fight because it apparently makes your point stronger with zero evidence

The DPS that got the tether if you ran a regen healer put a regen on them, if you were the shield healer put a shield on them and use soteria/union. That mechanic is already heavy on mitigation that sticks to the boss anyway

None of this requires the bubbles to be enormous and I have no idea why you think that’s somehow the only solution to a problem you have that others didn’t. I could just as easily say the EW raid baby’s only solution to problems is to make healing easy when back in the day soil’s small radius was a core of how you handled the mechanic but you notice I’m categorically not saying that

[Davixxa]

yes yes, all theory and none of the practice. Sure you could do that and yet they would still die especially mages. And mind you Dividing Wings 2 came right after Bonds 3 and PF could never do that shit clean... like ever.

As for Hector, he also had DPS right, and support left, so I am not sure what exactly you mean by light parties. Please link me to the raidplan/ video where he suggest Light parties or where this was done in such a manner.

In theory, you could do it since you have 1 DPS and 1 support picked, in reality, it would have been a shit show with people having to adjust based on prio. (snek memes prio much? and P8s trauma dumping that PF could also never get right?)




No offense but you are talking out of your ass now. Perhaps you did P10 normal but it was nothing like that the savage counterpart. P10s was a strong healer check. If you are up for the challenge and you think your comically large bubble would have covered all you needed, please consider doing Min Ilvl no Echo prog in P10S and get back to me after.

Also based on how you post and how pro you are, it should be a piece of cake no?

Ngl as someone who did it (I did do it late in the tier but still), it honestly didn't feel that bad. Even on release savage is rarely MINE. It's NE sure, but not MI. I struggled more on turrets and on actually forming the web wall for Harrowing Hell than Harrowing Hell itself.

[Kohashi]

Ngl as someone who did it (I did do it late in the tier but still), it honestly didn't feel that bad. Even on release savage is rarely MINE. It's NE sure, but not MI. I struggled more on turrets and on actually forming the web wall for Harrowing Hell than Harrowing Hell itself.

Wait, what? I am confused. How is p12s not MINE on release? The entry ilvl is stated as 640, and the best available gear was Diadochos, which is 640.

It didn't feel bad? of course, you were most likely getting carried by your co-heal..