Are Ultimates a major contributor to Job Design issues?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

More than anything, I had an inkling that range extension initially happened because of TOP (and maybe DSR too? CMIIW). I never done TOP myself, but I recall watching a few clips of the fight where it shows a hitbox:arena ratio being almost as bad as P7S and seeing complaints about how their raidwide buffs couldn't reach everybody. Those same complaints also arises in P8S where at 4 minute mark raidbuff window, one from two possible timeline would result in half of the parties being forced out to the corners where they won't be hit by anything that's cast from the opposite corner. Fast forward to 6.3, the 2nd wave of range extension happens. It was also the same patch when TOP was released. All of which happens before Anabaseios was even a thing.

Now as to why would they also extend that to mitigations and some heal actions, I have no friggin' clue. Probably the same line of thinking when they design follow-up buttons in DT where some works (i.e. PLD Blade of Honor and DRK's Disesteem) and then they had this grand idea to extend the same gesture to every single job, not understanding or unaware how it won't necessarily feel as good, especially i.e. on jobs like SCH's Chain > Baneful Impaction and RDM's Embolden > Vice of Thorn (have fun overwriting each other should you are paired with dupe jobs lol, which don't typically happen outside EX/Savage+).

[Gurgeh]

My mind is so m made up on this that I struggled to even bother to read the post, but I'm obliged to fit reasons of self respect.
I'm glad to say that the OP has earned my stamp of approval and that can confirm their thinking to be correct thinking.
High end is everything that is wrong with this game. I'm not being ironic. It is all the fault of ultimates etc.
No casual player cared about any of the job issues. If the job has a problem then they just played it badly, but they played it anyway, and even before ShBs idiotification of casual content, you still wouldn't see a wipe.
But now the high end player is the voice OVERWHELMING majority. I hear chat of all sorts, but in game 'noone is talking about the jobs, because quietly they are all thinking "what I'm playing is working for savage right now, and my priority is not upsetting that until I've cleared the next tier now. And the next, and the next... and...I'm on light. I'm in a recruiting FC. There are no sprouts coming through! Not ever!
There are no casual players, who run social content, and relish that content.
It just highend sweats. I've got a goal. Get in get out. If r lucky I'll say hi. You probably won't see me jumping with joy in the instance because it doesn't optimise anything, and you sure as ff L won't see me emoting.
All the casuals have already left. The only voice still logging in now is high end.

[Red-thunder]

My mind is so m made up on this that I struggled to even bother to read the post, but I'm obliged to fit reasons of self respect.
I'm glad to say that the OP has earned my stamp of approval and that can confirm their thinking to be correct thinking.
High end is everything that is wrong with this game. I'm not being ironic. It is all the fault of ultimates etc.
No casual player cared about any of the job issues. If the job has a problem then they just played it badly, but they played it anyway, and even before ShBs idiotification of casual content, you still wouldn't see a wipe.
But now the high end player is the voice OVERWHELMING majority. I hear chat of all sorts, but in game 'noone is talking about the jobs, because quietly they are all thinking "what I'm playing is working for savage right now, and my priority is not upsetting that until I've cleared the next tier now. And the next, and the next... and...I'm on light. I'm in a recruiting FC. There are no sprouts coming through! Not ever!
There are no casual players, who run social content, and relish that content.
It just highend sweats. I've got a goal. Get in get out. If r lucky I'll say hi. You probably won't see me jumping with joy in the instance because it doesn't optimise anything, and you sure as ff L won't see me emoting.
All the casuals have already left. The only voice still logging in now is high end.

This is a bit disingenuous but I do agree that job and encounter design have basically been co-opted by parsewhore interests for years now.

[Gurgeh]

This is a bit disingenuous but I do agree that job and encounter design have basically been co-opted by parsewhore interests for years now.

I wish it were disengenuous. It's not and I have no hope of feeling like I have something socially in common with the people people I play with. It's hard to put a finger on.

BUT THE VIBE HAS CHANGED. THAT VIBE IS EVERYWHERE AND IT'S ALL THERE IS.
Everyone is down to business.
Everyone is just passing through.
And I suspect it's savage that EVERYONE is just passing through to.

It's infected me to.
If I find myself in an MSQ roul instance because of mentor, and there isn't a single real sprout... then like F am I going to bother to even say hi. I'm not happy. I'm ea
way too pissed. And I won't apologise.
If my fellow non sprout MSQ players don't like the vibe, they will have to fix that themselves by coming to this forum to make their own complaint like I've now had to. They are welcome to make their own guess as to why it's so unfriendly but I'm handing SQX the answer on a plate here.

I run Mentor not to help as should be the case, but because it's the 1 roul left I dint find a guaranteed bore. At least I might occasionally get Satasha with 2 real sprouts that act like they are excited to be there. I'm not a sociopath narcissist high end player, and so it does have an effect on me. I have high empathy. I can tell from a thousand subtle clues in how someone plays, how they react how they move how they chat, and if all those queues and many more e missing, if the people I'm with are having honest fun. And are happy to be there with me.

I know the thousand things that SQX still haven't fixed that needlessly incentivise those instances.
It's the set piece of a sprouts entire first expansion and there is never even a death! Not even a death! Not EVER.

...oh I should add. Noone else said hi either. I'm nearly always the first person saying hello when hellos are said.
But saying hi doesn't optimise or speed run anything.

[Sivante]

I wish it were disengenuous. It's not and I have no hope of feeling like I have something socially in common with the people people I play with. It's hard to put a finger on.

BUT THE VIBE HAS CHANGED. THAT VIBE IS EVERYWHERE AND IT'S ALL THERE IS.
Everyone is down to business.
Everyone is just passing through.
And I suspect it's savage that EVERYONE is just passing through to.

It's infected me to.
If I find myself in an MSQ roul instance because of mentor, and there isn't a single real sprout... then like F am I going to bother to even say hi. I'm not happy. I'm ea
way too pissed. And I won't apologise.
If my fellow non sprout MSQ players don't like the vibe, they will have to fix that themselves by coming to this forum to make their own complaint like I've now had to. They are welcome to make their own guess as to why it's so unfriendly but I'm handing SQX the answer on a plate here.

I run Mentor not to help as should be the case, but because it's the 1 roul left I dint find a guaranteed bore. At least I might occasionally get Satasha with 2 real sprouts that act like they are excited to be there. I'm not a sociopath narcissist high end player, and so it does have an effect on me. I have high empathy. I can tell from a thousand subtle clues in how someone plays, how they react how they move how they chat, and if all those queues and many more e missing, if the people I'm with are having honest fun. And are happy to be there with me.

I know the thousand things that SQX still haven't fixed that needlessly incentivise those instances.
It's the set piece of a sprouts entire first expansion and there is never even a death! Not even a death! Not EVER.

...oh I should add. Noone else said hi either. I'm nearly always the first person saying hello when hellos are said.
But saying hi doesn't optimise or speed run anything.

I have noticed a lot of that lately. Seems increasingly even saying 'hello' is wasted effort. Even had one group of sprouts acting like I was rude for saying hello to them.

[Red-thunder]

I wish it were disengenuous. It's not and I have no hope of feeling like I have something socially in common with the people people I play with. It's hard to put a finger on.

BUT THE VIBE HAS CHANGED. THAT VIBE IS EVERYWHERE AND IT'S ALL THERE IS.
Everyone is down to business.
Everyone is just passing through.
And I suspect it's savage that EVERYONE is just passing through to.

It's infected me to.
If I find myself in an MSQ roul instance because of mentor, and there isn't a single real sprout... then like F am I going to bother to even say hi. I'm not happy. I'm ea
way too pissed. And I won't apologise.
If my fellow non sprout MSQ players don't like the vibe, they will have to fix that themselves by coming to this forum to make their own complaint like I've now had to. They are welcome to make their own guess as to why it's so unfriendly but I'm handing SQX the answer on a plate here.

I run Mentor not to help as should be the case, but because it's the 1 roul left I dint find a guaranteed bore. At least I might occasionally get Satasha with 2 real sprouts that act like they are excited to be there. I'm not a sociopath narcissist high end player, and so it does have an effect on me. I have high empathy. I can tell from a thousand subtle clues in how someone plays, how they react how they move how they chat, and if all those queues and many more e missing, if the people I'm with are having honest fun. And are happy to be there with me.

I know the thousand things that SQX still haven't fixed that needlessly incentivise those instances.
It's the set piece of a sprouts entire first expansion and there is never even a death! Not even a death! Not EVER.

...oh I should add. Noone else said hi either. I'm nearly always the first person saying hello when hellos are said.
But saying hi doesn't optimise or speed run anything.

The vibe has definitely changed, and it really just boils down to the content being so innately unenjoyable and repetitive that people would rather get it over with as quickly as possible.

We used to find optimization interesting for its own sake, but now, nah...

[AllenThyl]

This is a bit disingenuous but I do agree that job and encounter design have basically been co-opted by parsewhore interests for years now.

You mean like those those people who dismiss other people's (factually true) statements about the encounter design because they haven't cleared / do not have pink parses, those "parsewhores"? Yeah, I agree, people like this clown are the worst:

Look you've never done an Ultimate on patch and haven't gotten any pinks so I'm not really interested in explaining everything just for you.

Also lol if you just press dia and glare on whm, misery on cooldown you'll get an orange. For most jobs just doing your rotation correctly gives you an orange. You don't even have to care about uptime, just ABC alone is orange.

Also, you forgot to put your disclaimer so that people know to instantly dismiss all your points:

I don't play this game

We wouldn't want anyone who reads your engagement baits to start believing completely false and stupid things like "the Nael phase is truly random", would we? No no no, that would be disingenuous!

[Valence]

Harrowing Hell is an anomaly in modern XIV design. We used to have soft enrages a bit similar to it at the end of certain savage fights in the past, long ago, but not anymore.
I wish we could have more Harrowing Hell, it feels actually epic and threatening.

[Valkyrie-Veil]

Pretty sure the devs have said this quite openly, but good luck finding these exact snippets; everything gets said in offhanded interview comments or gets buried in 8 hour live letters. I distinctly remember the balance team mentioning that the two minute standardization fetish was born out of a desire to make high-end raiding encounters easier for the team to design. They also take player feedback into account. For example, AST used to have lots of different cards that you drew randomly, and a whole system for building an optimal party buff with some chance mixed in, but a lot of people who treat this game like a spreadsheet didn't like that and complained, so now AST is a boring shitjob where you draw the same cards over and over again.

The AST example singlehandedly killed my interest in healing. Sigh.

[Red-thunder]

but a lot of people who treat this game like a spreadsheet didn't like that and complained, so now AST is a boring shitjob where you draw the same cards over and over again.

HW/SB AST was more fun for people who actually enjoyed optimization and not grind their way to a 99 by crit farming.

Because of the random nature of cards you had to make a lot of snap decisions. Expanded Balance wasn't the only right choice and it had pretty hidden depth. Using an Extended Arrow on a monk (in a coordinated group that goads) outside of burst windows can sometimes be a smart choice and is mathematically superior depending on the situation.