The importance of a rival

[Hallarem]

but the WoL never was that powerful when they took the planet the tank have to use a lb3 otherwise it is a wipe then it's hope from others. the warrior of light never was that powerful to begin with we are stronger yes but remember Zenos kicked our ass more then once and then we kill him in Endwalker. People often forget that LB is the party determination and that the game acknowledge the others player to so we are not that powerful xx)

The same crowd that uses cringe terms like "mountain buster" or "planet buster" or "nation destroyer" are the ones that want this game to become their shonen anime wet dream. Instead of a well written balanced story. The WoL is not Goku. He can be beaten. Plot armor - narrative progression doesnt mean = superman

[Carin-Eri]

but the WoL never was that powerful when they took the planet the tank have to use a lb3 otherwise it is a wipe then it's hope from others. the warrior of light never was that powerful to begin with we are stronger yes but remember Zenos kicked our ass more then once and then we kill him in Endwalker. People often forget that LB is the party determination and that the game acknowledge the others player to so we are not that powerful xx)

Also worth acknowledging that he very nearly killed us too.

It was very clear that we only survived thanks to the emergency teleportation device that found it's way to us. Otherwise the Warrior of Light would have died, leaving their body at the universe's edge alongside their rival's... having passed away after giving their all for their star.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Zenos was fine as a one-expac villain. Having no particular motive beyond "find a strong enemy and get a good fight" was a fine contrast to previous "well-intentioned extremist" antagonists like Gaius or Regula. The problem is that he never actually does anything to justify coming back. He stalks the WoL for a while, then when he finds out we're out of his reach now after going to the First, he suddenly decides that he wants his body back. Then he becomes the writers' catspaw to start writing Garlemald out of the story. His entire arc in Endwalker is literally throwing in his face that he's irrelevant.

As far as a rival? I never felt it. He was a roadblock, then he was an annoyance, then he was Fandaniel's pawn, then he was a loose end to tie up. I never felt like he had the narrative justification to call himself a real rival.

[TheDustyOne]

The same crowd that uses cringe terms like "mountain buster" or "planet buster" or "nation destroyer" are the ones that want this game to become their shonen anime wet dream. Instead of a well written balanced story. The WoL is not Goku. He can be beaten. Plot armor - narrative progression doesnt mean = superman

Ironically, even Goku had low moments where he lost; most of it was during the tournament arcs of the original Dragon Ball, but even later on during Z he still had moments where he was out of commission while others had to fight whatever villain was around while he recovered. I can't comment on Super, but at the very least Goku was "beatable" during the original and Z, even if he was comically overpowered through large chunks of it.

As for the topic at hand; a rival isn't a necessity for XIV in particular. HW and ShB didn't really have one for us, I didn't care for Zenos, and hated that they resurrected him almost immediately after SB. Not every story needs a rival to be successful, if anything 14s best expansions are the ones without a prominent rival character for the WoL.

[Alyko]

I like Zenos. I hope we can meet another reflection of him :^)

[TheMightyMollusk]

Ironically, even Goku had low moments where he lost; most of it was during the tournament arcs of the original Dragon Ball, but even later on during Z he still had moments where he was out of commission while others had to fight whatever villain was around while he recovered. I can't comment on Super, but at the very least Goku was "beatable" during the original and Z, even if he was comically overpowered through large chunks of it.

Fun fact, Goku has never actually beaten Vegeta in a one-on-one fight.

[Mawlzy]

Zenos was fine as a one-expac villain. Having no particular motive beyond "find a strong enemy and get a good fight" was a fine contrast to previous "well-intentioned extremist" antagonists like Gaius or Regula. The problem is that he never actually does anything to justify coming back. He stalks the WoL for a while, then when he finds out we're out of his reach now after going to the First, he suddenly decides that he wants his body back. Then he becomes the writers' catspaw to start writing Garlemald out of the story. His entire arc in Endwalker is literally throwing in his face that he's irrelevant.

As far as a rival? I never felt it. He was a roadblock, then he was an annoyance, then he was Fandaniel's pawn, then he was a loose end to tie up. I never felt like he had the narrative justification to call himself a real rival.

When we first lose a fight to Zenos, I found that absolutely brilliant. It was both shocking in real time, but also almost a relief that there was a challenge and that we couldn't just face-roll everything.

Unfortunately he ceased being a rival and turned into a creepy stalker.

[Carin-Eri]

I personally loved Zenos. Unapologetically evil, simple, without a sob story, and straight to the point. For me, it was a breath of fresh air in between all that drama/trauma dumping that msq was doing.

Same - I thought he was a fantastic character.

A villain with relatable motives/an extremely good reason to be the way that they are is definitely not a bad villain, but I feel some have started to lean on that trope a little too heavily. So when a bad guy with "simpler" motivations comes along, he catches hate.

I personally enjoyed Zeno's exactly because he's simple and, frankly, relatable. The Warrior of Light fought beasts, Gods, dragons, and pretty much the entire imperial army. The only time we've ever faced any sort of challenge or hardship, its been indirectly from people threatening those around us. We were basically untouchable - a gun to bring to any swordfight. I suspect most players were feeling pretty invincible by the point in the game immediately prior to Zenos, which was likely by design.

And then, without warning, Zenos appears and absolutely wipes the floor with us reminding us, both in-game and meta, that we're not invincible and there IS someone better out there.

And I honestly enjoyed how his story played out, particularly when we finally fight him in Ultima Thule - because in my view, he was right about us when he identified our 'Adventurer' roots. and recognised that we were heroes through circumstance and a need to do the right thing, rather than choice.

[Nero-Voidstails]

Also worth acknowledging that he very nearly killed us too.

It was very clear that we only survived thanks to the emergency teleportation device that found it's way to us. Otherwise the Warrior of Light would have died, leaving their body at the universe's edge alongside their rival's... having passed away after giving their all for their star.

people see Zenos as a villain when I never saw him as such really yes he was but deep inside he wanted a friend a reason to live even if it was to annoys the shit out of us but I think Zenos was used as a massive milestone for the WoL. He was a bad guy yes but he always pushed the WoL to a greater end to always surpass the limits! People often think that the warrior of light single handed every hardship while the game have always acknowledged other player everytime we go solo instances everyone can beat the WoL and some even does it giving us a quest to become stronger.


When we kill Zenos I didn't saw it as a good riddance but as a growth that the WoL have reached finally on equal terms with the only friends they ever have.


Yes I saw Zenos as the first friend the WoL ever have yes it was a twisted friendship but not all friendship are good and filled with rainbow in my eyes Zenos was more then just a rival because he helped you when he could just have watch you die even encourage you in his own way.

Rest in peace Zenos wish I could have given you a real departure!

[Kohashi]

Same - I thought he was a fantastic character.

A villain with relatable motives/an extremely good reason to be the way that they are is definitely not a bad villain, but I feel some have started to lean on that trope a little too heavily. So when a bad guy with "simpler" motivations comes along, he catches hate.

I personally enjoyed Zeno's exactly because he's simple and, frankly, relatable. The Warrior of Light fought beasts, Gods, dragons, and pretty much the entire imperial army. The only time we've ever faced any sort of challenge or hardship, its been indirectly from people threatening those around us. We were basically untouchable - a gun to bring to any swordfight. I suspect most players were feeling pretty invincible by the point in the game immediately prior to Zenos, which was likely by design.

And then, without warning, Zenos appears and absolutely wipes the floor with us reminding us, both in-game and meta, that we're not invincible and there IS someone better out there.

And I honestly enjoyed how his story played out, particularly when we finally fight him in Ultima Thule - because in my view, he was right about us when he identified our 'Adventurer' roots. and recognised that we were heroes through circumstance and a need to do the right thing, rather than choice.

To me, it was actually incredibly impressive considering the limitations Garleans have. I did wish the fight took place a lot sooner and I was actually hoping for an extreme where I get to fight him in his human form, much like we fought his father.

I don't understand the pure hate some people have for him. All that drove him was gaining power and dueling people out of sheer enjoyment for the challenge after spending most of his life honing his skills. I can also absolutely understand his lack of interest in politics. He was after all a self-serving villain, hehe.

To be fair, I never liked WoL development and how perfect they were. Always picking the best answers, the best choices, the best outcomes, never faltering, never doubting. So unidimensional and so damn boring. Where is the darkness, the struggles, the pain???