Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards the usage of SIM ?

[Router]

The fact that using a sim is the optimal way to play the game shows just how bad modern raiding is.

Cheating is always the "optimal" way to play anything

[BigCheez]

Then the question becomes, why are checkpoints not an option?

( the answer is pretty obvious )

I don't understand what this has to do with the point that I made.

Being able to practice part of something in isolation does not detract from the difficulty or consistency required to complete it from start to finish in one attempt. Adding a checkpoint would mean that you don't need to complete it in one attempt.

[Kazuke_Miso]

Not really. The ability to practice a later segment of something in isolation without having to go through the whole thing to get there is always advantageous. This applies to literally anything, not just raiding. It's no different from a musician practising a passage from the end of a difficult piece of music on its own.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the game has only pumped out dance style fights with the same dynamo chariot left right spread stack pyretic freeze light party partners since SB where the most difficult mechanics since late SB were literally all just memorizing the raidplan on a debuff soup mech. Guess what happens when your mechanics are so stale and scripted? People might as well just use an amateur sim to get it done.

[Collin_Sky]

I don't understand what this has to do with the point that I made.

Being able to practice part of something in isolation does not detract from the difficulty or consistency required to complete it from start to finish in one attempt. Adding a checkpoint would mean that you don't need to complete it in one attempt.

He means a checkpoint to practice a phase in isolation.
That said, my response to this would be that it's pointless and actually harmful. You will have different resources in a checkpoint pull than you would in a proper pull, so you can't really practice things and probably actually are more likely to ingrain bad habits/expectations of what you can and can't do when you swap from checkpoints to full run.

[CaedemSanguis]

Nothing in savage is worth simming. The fights aren't long enough. I usually clear ultimates on patch, and I've never had a group that didn't want to sim. I think the general consensus is that you should do whatever preparation possible to expedite prog. If you can prog at the same speed as people who sim without simming yourself then I'm sure nobody would take issue with your philosophy, but many would just kick if you were lagging behind.

But I agree overall, the fact the community has resorted to simming these mechanics has really highlighted an issue. An argument could be made that a segment of the community is attempting the hardcore content that doesn't have the requisite skill to beat that content. That's a fairly decent argument, and it highlights the problem with people using things like cactbot and splatoon to trivialize mechanics. If simming was also a third party tool that violated TOS I would agree with that position too. (I'm not saying that's your position by the way.)

One of my semiHC group (DSR) wanted to use SIM but me and a few others were against it

To me using sim is straight up like cheating

[CaedemSanguis]

Consistency is consistency. Not difficulty.

«*Dps check is a dps check, not a difficulty*»

[CaedemSanguis]

No. Why is this even being asked? it's a ridiculous thought, if it can't be performed in-game, it cannot be balanced around it, that should be the start and end of it.

Well then PC players (who uses sim) will have a huge advantage over console players + SIM is not illegal technically, and as you can see in this thread a lot of people consider it as a «*training tool*»

[Lilapop]

It's funny how the game can be summarized into "don't stand in the orange" nowadays whether it shows on screen or not.

Incoming every endgame raider and their dog saying "umm ackshually it takesh shkill!!!!"

[Collin_Sky]

«*Dps check is a dps check, not a difficulty*»

Agree completely.

[VeyaAkemi]

Well then PC players (who uses sim) will have a huge advantage over console players + SIM is not illegal technically, and as you can see in this thread a lot of people consider it as a «*training tool*»

And pray tell, how does that give PC players an advantage against console players? you do not need to own the game on PC to use simulators, as it runs separate from the game, you only need a halfway decent PC, and most modern user-level laptops will be able to run it no problem, at most you will have to deal with WASD movement for a bit while practicing, as I am not sure sims supports controller, but I can't imagine that having a gargantuan impact as the goal is to see and understand mechanics, and even if it doesn't, this also affects PC players as plenty of people play on controller.