Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards the usage of SIM ?

[Lilapop]

Please do not equate time spent progging as fight difficulty.

I feel like you're a few years too late to be trying to push this mindset, not that I disagree.

[AllenThyl]

I mean, your question is basically the equivalent of "Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards usage of guides?". Even if we ignore all the stuff about discrepancies in platform capabilities and all that. The content difficulty is tuned to the tier of difficulty it's supposed to represent. Just like a guide, a simulator makes a fight easier to understand. One still has to develop the skill to perform ingame, one way or another.

[ExcellusUltimus]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

[Valence]

Not really. The ability to practice a later segment of something in isolation without having to go through the whole thing to get there is always advantageous. This applies to literally anything, not just raiding. It's no different from a musician practising a passage from the end of a difficult piece of music on its own.

Then the question becomes, why are checkpoints not an option?

( the answer is pretty obvious )

[CaedemSanguis]

If it cannot be supported natively in the game for both PC users and console alike then it has no business being a factor in design process.

Yeah idk

Sim was already a thing back in DSR/TOP i think, and despite that, people think they were too hard

But FRU + M1s-M4s makes me afraid that they’re gonna do easier savages/ultimates, and even easier with SIM/3rd party tool

[CaedemSanguis]

Of course, and then people would complain content is too easy and blame Square.

Within or without SIM/3rd party tools, FRU/M1s-M4s are undertuned compared to DSR/TOP/P1s-P4s

[CaedemSanguis]

Sim is a time saver, that is literally it.
It does not affect the difficulty of the fight in the slightest.

Please do not equate time spent progging as fight difficulty.

Why doing 15mn-20mn fights if consistency was not a difficulty

[CaedemSanguis]

I mean, your question is basically the equivalent of "Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards usage of guides?". Even if we ignore all the stuff about discrepancies in platform capabilities and all that. The content difficulty is tuned to the tier of difficulty it's supposed to represent. Just like a guide, a simulator makes a fight easier to understand. One still has to develop the skill to perform ingame, one way or another.

Well I agree with the first sentence

And SE already did this thing with Uwu (blind HC group lost the first day of prog)

The point is should SE tune the difficulty to vanilla players or to*«*«*cheaters*»*», since SIM is probably cutting X0 hours of prog I think they should makes fights harder, but I guess I understand if they tune it to vanilla players even if the SIM users will have a way easier prog

[CaedemSanguis]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

I really dont think T4 sim is the same as the real SIM

Im a pretty serious raider (several week 1 tiers, some HC tiers like M4s day 2) and im against the real SIM

And FF14 will never be the same as WoW, thay have different pve structure, wow is «*gameplay*», ff14 is «*dance*»

[Lilapop]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

Whaaat? You're saying mechanics where one person can cause a wipe at .1% with 0 checkpoints in a 20 minute bossrush fight isn't PEAK fun? This sounds like a skill issue. Get good! /s

Jokes aside, you don't have to enjoy it to find it useful, no?