Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards the usage of SIM ?

[ExcellusUltimus]

I really dont think T4 sim is the same as the real SIM

Im a pretty serious raider (several week 1 tiers, some HC tiers like M4s day 2) and im against the real SIM

And FF14 will never be the same as WoW, thay have different pve structure, wow is «*gameplay*», ff14 is «*dance*»

Nothing in savage is worth simming. The fights aren't long enough. I usually clear ultimates on patch, and I've never had a group that didn't want to sim. I think the general consensus is that you should do whatever preparation possible to expedite prog. If you can prog at the same speed as people who sim without simming yourself then I'm sure nobody would take issue with your philosophy, but many would just kick if you were lagging behind.

But I agree overall, the fact the community has resorted to simming these mechanics has really highlighted an issue. An argument could be made that a segment of the community is attempting the hardcore content that doesn't have the requisite skill to beat that content. That's a fairly decent argument, and it highlights the problem with people using things like cactbot and splatoon to trivialize mechanics. If simming was also a third party tool that violated TOS I would agree with that position too. (I'm not saying that's your position by the way.)

[CaedemSanguis]

Nothing in savage is worth simming. The fights aren't long enough. I usually clear ultimates on patch, and I've never had a group that didn't want to sim. I think the general consensus is that you should do whatever preparation possible to expedite prog. If you can prog at the same speed as people who sim without simming yourself then I'm sure nobody would take issue with your philosophy, but many would just kick if you were lagging behind.

But I agree overall, the fact the community has resorted to simming these mechanics has really highlighted an issue. An argument could be made that a segment of the community is attempting the hardcore content that doesn't have the requisite skill to beat that content. That's a fairly decent argument, and it highlights the problem with people using things like cactbot and splatoon to trivialize mechanics. If simming was also a third party tool that violated TOS I would agree with that position too. (I'm not saying that's your position by the way.)

One of my semiHC group (DSR) wanted to use SIM but me and a few others were against it

To me using sim is straight up like cheating

[Lilapop]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

Whaaat? You're saying mechanics where one person can cause a wipe at .1% with 0 checkpoints in a 20 minute bossrush fight isn't PEAK fun? This sounds like a skill issue. Get good! /s

Jokes aside, you don't have to enjoy it to find it useful, no?

[VeyaAkemi]

No. Why is this even being asked? it's a ridiculous thought, if it can't be performed in-game, it cannot be balanced around it, that should be the start and end of it.

[CaedemSanguis]

No. Why is this even being asked? it's a ridiculous thought, if it can't be performed in-game, it cannot be balanced around it, that should be the start and end of it.

Well then PC players (who uses sim) will have a huge advantage over console players + SIM is not illegal technically, and as you can see in this thread a lot of people consider it as a «*training tool*»

[VeyaAkemi]

Well then PC players (who uses sim) will have a huge advantage over console players + SIM is not illegal technically, and as you can see in this thread a lot of people consider it as a «*training tool*»

And pray tell, how does that give PC players an advantage against console players? you do not need to own the game on PC to use simulators, as it runs separate from the game, you only need a halfway decent PC, and most modern user-level laptops will be able to run it no problem, at most you will have to deal with WASD movement for a bit while practicing, as I am not sure sims supports controller, but I can't imagine that having a gargantuan impact as the goal is to see and understand mechanics, and even if it doesn't, this also affects PC players as plenty of people play on controller.

[BigCheez]

And pray tell, how does that give PC players an advantage against console players? you do not need to own the game on PC to use simulators, as it runs separate from the game, you only need a halfway decent PC, and most modern user-level laptops will be able to run it no problem, at most you will have to deal with WASD movement for a bit while practicing, as I am not sure sims supports controller, but I can't imagine that having a gargantuan impact as the goal is to see and understand mechanics, and even if it doesn't, this also affects PC players as plenty of people play on controller.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you could run the sim on a phone.

[Clockworks]

Well then PC players (who uses sim) will have a huge advantage over console players + SIM is not illegal technically, and as you can see in this thread a lot of people consider it as a «*training tool*»

"huge advantage" in FFXIV... Really ?

[CaedemSanguis]

"huge advantage" in FFXIV... Really ?

Well it makes the fight easier by 30-40% for ultimates ?

Tell me if it's huge or not

[Valence]

It's funny how the game can be summarized into "don't stand in the orange" nowadays whether it shows on screen or not.