Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards the usage of SIM ?

[CaedemSanguis]

If it cannot be supported natively in the game for both PC users and console alike then it has no business being a factor in design process.

Yeah idk

Sim was already a thing back in DSR/TOP i think, and despite that, people think they were too hard

But FRU + M1s-M4s makes me afraid that they’re gonna do easier savages/ultimates, and even easier with SIM/3rd party tool

[TaleraRistain]

If it cannot be supported natively in the game for both PC users and console alike then it has no business being a factor in design process.

This. Why would SE design around something that isn't available in their game? They've repeatedly said they design these fights to be able to be done without any third party tools for years now. The only way this will change is if they bring that type of tool into the game natively. Then they can design around it since it would be a feature in the game.

[Kaurhz]

This. Why would SE design around something that isn't available in their game? They've repeatedly said they design these fights to be able to be done without any third party tools for years now. The only way this will change is if they bring that type of tool into the game natively. Then they can design around it since it would be a feature in the game.

My problem with it is largely the precedent that it would set for future design if they were to account for extrinsic tools and resources, who's to say they don't eventually steer down the path of "Well a lot of people also use this tool, so perhaps we should also account for this tool in our design process". It just generally makes for bad design.

If they can develop xyz natively in the game, then by all means factor that into a design process. But if you cannot natively support it, then don't do it. - Then you have the whole skill discrepancy that it creates with those that can access it easily, and those that cannot, e.g., those accessing on console.

I am just considering it from a design perspective. - I feel like if people want harder content then they should just straight out ask for harder content -- Not content designed around something that isn't even native to the game.

[CaedemSanguis]

This. Why would SE design around something that isn't available in their game? They've repeatedly said they design these fights to be able to be done without any third party tools for years now. The only way this will change is if they bring that type of tool into the game natively. Then they can design around it since it would be a feature in the game.

it's because it seems to me that a lot of people are using SIM, that's why

[TaleraRistain]

it's because it seems to me that a lot of people are using SIM, that's why

SE doesn't care. They're well aware of tools out there now and they aren't designing content around them and have been adamantly against that idea.

[CaedemSanguis]

SE doesn't care. They're well aware of tools out there now and they aren't designing content around them and have been adamantly against that idea.

Well it's sad then lol

Yoshi compared ultimates to a ferrari, with the SIM and with how FRU is easier, it has become a 1000$ car

at least the prog is always fun, even if there is """no""" reward

[AllenThyl]

I mean, your question is basically the equivalent of "Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards usage of guides?". Even if we ignore all the stuff about discrepancies in platform capabilities and all that. The content difficulty is tuned to the tier of difficulty it's supposed to represent. Just like a guide, a simulator makes a fight easier to understand. One still has to develop the skill to perform ingame, one way or another.

[CaedemSanguis]

I mean, your question is basically the equivalent of "Should SE scale high end content difficulty towards usage of guides?". Even if we ignore all the stuff about discrepancies in platform capabilities and all that. The content difficulty is tuned to the tier of difficulty it's supposed to represent. Just like a guide, a simulator makes a fight easier to understand. One still has to develop the skill to perform ingame, one way or another.

Well I agree with the first sentence

And SE already did this thing with Uwu (blind HC group lost the first day of prog)

The point is should SE tune the difficulty to vanilla players or to*«*«*cheaters*»*», since SIM is probably cutting X0 hours of prog I think they should makes fights harder, but I guess I understand if they tune it to vanilla players even if the SIM users will have a way easier prog

[ExcellusUltimus]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

[CaedemSanguis]

The primary issue is that ultimates are made artificially difficult by making the fights around twice as long as most other fights in the game. This really came to a head in TOP when they chose to backload the hardest mechanics ever released into the game, 12 minutes into the fight. I haven't progged too far into Fru due to real life obligations, but the mechanics so far don't seem particularly challenging in comparison to TOP.

It would be nice if SE could find a different way to make fights difficult rather than a 20 minute fight with 10-15 body check mechanics. I've played quite a bit of WOW, and the fights in wow manage to be challenging and still aren't 20 minutes long, and I've never once seen a FFXIV style body check mechanic. And they manage to design content like this, probably because they allow players to test the content on the PTR.

Prior to ridiculous mechanics like Sigma and Omega in TOP, simming existed in other forms. I remember going into T4 to simulate wormhole when TEA came out. The only difference between simming now and simming 6 years ago is that there's a user interface and program for it now. The philosophy has always been in the game since they started created these miserably long fights. Anyone who "doesn't enjoy simming" probably never took raid preparation seriously in the first place, though I understand why people would think it's boring. It definitely is.

I really dont think T4 sim is the same as the real SIM

Im a pretty serious raider (several week 1 tiers, some HC tiers like M4s day 2) and im against the real SIM

And FF14 will never be the same as WoW, thay have different pve structure, wow is «*gameplay*», ff14 is «*dance*»