Re: Regarding the Use of Third-Party Programs and Player Safety

[ZXN]

You're flying off the handle for no reason. I was asking if people had seen a post or heard something became as a result of this stalker plugin, because someone said something that suggested there was news on the matter. The answer is "no", fine ok. That's all. You're tilting at windmills with your response there.

You were essentially asking, with your recent posts, for people to give proof that you can see, that proves that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring, or if it's just "hypotheticals" that people are going overboard with. You asked for something that is pretty much impossible for anyone in this entire thread to ever prove. There is simply no way to give concrete evidence that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring without asking someone who is using said plugin if they are using it for stalking, and I have a feeling they won't be so keen on just going "Absolutely!" to said question so openly. Hence why, to me only in this specific instance since I cannot/will not speak for others, your posts looked like you're just attempting to gaslight people and then give troll responses to them. Hell you even replied to me by opening with me "flying off the handle", which implies that I must be absolute irate with you to have replied in the way I did. I can assure you I am calm and I have no anger towards you. The is the internet after all.

As for "news" on the matter you apparently heard about, if I had to make a guess: then it might be about Yoshi-P leaving a statement recently on the forums some days ago, mentioning that they he and the devs are aware of the plugin's existence and what it does and are discussing to have it removed / take legal action on it, and now several sites are "covering" it.

Link to Yoshi-P's forum statement so players can read it themselves: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Player-Safety

However, due to how this statement is somewhat vaguely worded when it comes to the situation as a whole: some could see this statement as them essentially saying that this entire issue is ONLY because of the 3rd party program, even though this issue only even really exists in the first place because of how FF14's blacklist system is currently implemented and how it handles and interacts with the data it gets. As such, players are still skeptical about this statement Yoshi-P made actually meaning anything until he and the devs actually change how the in-game blacklist handles the data it's getting, otherwise even if they do remove this specific plugin: someone can just make another plugin that does the exact same thing and then we begin the cycle again.

[Exmo]

You were essentially asking, with your recent posts, for people to give proof that you can see, that proves that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring, or if it's just "hypotheticals" that people are going overboard with. You asked for something that is pretty much impossible for anyone in this entire thread to ever prove. There is simply no way to give concrete evidence that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring without asking someone who is using said plugin if they are using it for stalking, and I have a feeling they won't be so keen on just going "Absolutely!" to said question so openly. Hence why, to me only in this specific instance since I cannot/will not speak for others, your posts looked like you're just attempting to gaslight people and then give troll responses to them. Hell you even replied to me by opening with me "flying off the handle", which implies that I must be absolute irate with you to have replied in the way I did. I can assure you I am calm and I have no anger towards you. The is the internet after all.

You sound mad. If that's not your intent, you're doing a bad job of communicating your intended tone. But listen, it's clear you only want to interpret things in the least generous way possible, so I'm not interested in talking to you. In the world I live in, it's not impossible for a player to post in this thread or on reddit or anywhere else something along the lines of "my stalker found my alt and messaged me from a new account." We don't need omniscience, we don't need 100% concrete proof, we don't need a total player-wide survey. Let's not be idiotic here, come on.

By the way, putting hypotheticals in scare quotes there is weird behavior considering it was a way someone else described this conversation first. But you're trying to make it out like I'm downplaying things because I used the same word that was in a post I was quoting.

Given how quickly you went on the attack and the attitude of some people here that it doesn't even matter if this plugin has caused harm, it really sounds like some of you don't care about actual victims of harassment, like they're irrelevant to this conversation. You spent so much of your post taking about SE and Yoshi-P it looks like all you want is to score points against the devs.

[BigCheez]

You sound mad. If that's not your intent, you're doing a bad job of communicating your intended tone. But listen, it's clear you only want to interpret things in the least generous way possible, so I'm not interested in talking to you. In the world I live in, it's not impossible for a player to post in this thread or on reddit or anywhere else something along the lines of "my stalker found my alt and messaged me from a new account." We don't need omniscience, we don't need 100% concrete proof, we don't need a total player-wide survey. Let's not be idiotic here, come on.

By the way, putting hypotheticals in scare quotes there is weird behavior considering it was a way someone else described this conversation first. But you're trying to make it out like I'm downplaying things because I used the same word that was in a post I was quoting.

Given how quickly you went on the attack and the attitude of some people here that it doesn't even matter if this plugin has caused harm, it really sounds like some of you don't care about actual victims of harassment, like they're irrelevant to this conversation. You spent so much of your post taking about SE and Yoshi-P it looks like all you want is to score points against the devs.

[ZXN]

You sound mad. If that's not your intent, you're doing a bad job of communicating your intended tone. But listen, it's clear you only want to interpret things in the least generous way possible, so I'm not interested in talking to you. In the world I live in, it's not impossible for a player to post in this thread or on reddit or anywhere else something along the lines of "my stalker found my alt and messaged me from a new account." We don't need omniscience, we don't need 100% concrete proof, we don't need a total player-wide survey. Let's not be idiotic here, come on.

By the way, putting hypotheticals in scare quotes there is weird behavior considering it was a way someone else described this conversation first. But you're trying to make it out like I'm downplaying things because I used the same word that was in a post I was quoting.

Given how quickly you went on the attack and the attitude of some people here that it doesn't even matter if this plugin has caused harm, it really sounds like some of you don't care about actual victims of harassment, like they're irrelevant to this conversation. You spent so much of your post taking about SE and Yoshi-P it looks like all you want is to score points against the devs.

Lol. Lmao even. Well, I guess you got your response you were fishing for, so enjoy your clap and a half.

Anyway, back to having an actual conversation now-

Just add an anticheat in 8.0 we need it at this rate.

This is not a good idea. Adding anti-cheat will, I suppose, "cripple" the game, since I really don't believe adding it would outright kill FF14 like some players say it would, but it would absolutely hurt the game quite a bit overall. A LOT of people just use mods to change how their character looks to them, be it for RP purposes or because character creator is lacking overall, or use Quality Of Life/Basic Features that should really be in the game at this point in the game's life, like Chat Bubbles. Some also use them for more accessibility options, since the current one implemented in-game are pretty lacking. The Devs no doubt know this, otherwise I think anti-cheat probably would've been thrown in sometime ago given all the situations that came up as a result of the more problematic plugins in the past.

However, this current situation is entirely on Yoshi-P and the Devs to fix. Someone warned that something like this could occur months ago on Reddit, and they were pretty much laughed at for bringing it up as a "who cares lol" type of deal. Now everyone is seeing first hand just how badly Yoshi-P and the Devs implemented the Blacklist system and how it handles the data it receives as this plugin is essentially exploiting that to get all this information to begin with. Them nuking all mods because they don't want to fix their own system would be laughable. They just have to fix their blacklist and how it handles the data it receives in this specific instance.