Re: Regarding the Use of Third-Party Programs and Player Safety

[ovIm]

Most of the people using this tool would be stopped at the requirement of installing and running wireshark, much less having to read the output. It also woudln't conveniently compile everyone's data into a centralized database for use by even the most tech illiterate.
Peopel seem to be so afraid of not having the perfect solution with 0 workaround that they reject the easy solution in front of their face.

The fact this game has such rampant cheating and people actually threaten to leave the game for good if they can no longer cheat or use 3rd party tools to harass others is definitely eye opening though.

If someone can code something that clings onto the game to extract data, that individual can also code an addon to Wireshark that filters FFXIV network data and saves it in a nice, readable format. Wireshark openly supports plugins, after all.

Add to the fact that an AntiCheat is a very invasive bit of software with a plethora of problems. What you are not seeing is that implementing an AntiCheat will most likely cause many issues with regular playing folk as well. Imagine the AntiCheat gives a false positive and bans your account. Do you trust Square Enix Support to resolve that, with how they are handling this dilemma right now? What if they buy in an AntiCheat like Denuvo that is proven to be an actual issue with customer PCs, in terms of performance. Too many AC solutions also hook very deep into your computer, running constantly. Just look at all the problems Valorants AntiCheat caused.
Asking for an AntiCheat implementation is literally inviting the devil into your home. What about Steam Deck players, they would be excluded from playing as well.

AntiCheat is literally the worst kind of solution to this problem. I'd rather they implement something properly server side.

[VerdeLuck]

If someone can code something that clings onto the game to extract data, that individual can also code an addon to Wireshark that filters FFXIV network data and saves it in a nice, readable format. Wireshark openly supports plugins, after all.

Add to the fact that an AntiCheat is a very invasive bit of software with a plethora of problems. What you are not seeing is that implementing an AntiCheat will most likely cause many issues with regular playing folk as well. Imagine the AntiCheat gives a false positive and bans your account. Do you trust Square Enix Support to resolve that, with how they are handling this dilemma right now? What if they buy in an AntiCheat like Denuvo that is proven to be an actual issue with customer PCs, in terms of performance. Too many AC solutions also hook very deep into your computer, running constantly. Just look at all the problems Valorants AntiCheat caused.
Asking for an AntiCheat implementation is literally inviting the devil into your home. What about Steam Deck players, they would be excluded from playing as well.

AntiCheat is literally the worst kind of solution to this problem. I'd rather they implement something properly server side.

So now you're requiring people to know how to get, install wireshark, and now modify wireshark with plugins and export and extract that data.
You act like requiring a massive amount more tech literacy is the same as a github repo where you plug it into the dalamud launcher and it installs and works instantly.

You guys are so concerned with a perfect solution with no security holes you're ignoring any mitigation or path forward that reduces the spread and efficacy of the plugin.

[ovIm]

So now you're requiring people to know how to get, install wireshark, and now modify wireshark with plugins and export and extract that data.
You act like requiring a massive amount more tech literacy is the same as a github repo where you plug it into the dalamud launcher and it installs and works instantly.

You are deliberately misunderstanding me right now. Most people using the plugin did not code it themselves either, or do you think they all compiled it from the github source? They grabbed the finished plugin and installed it.

It would need just one bad actor to code something like that for Wireshark and publish it, and as we have seen with this issue, there are people weird enough to do that.

No tech literacy is required from the general populace, just from a few coders with a desire to scrape the data.

You are so blind to the general issue that you suggest to make the program FFXIV worse for everyone in an attempt to fix a problem that cannot be fixed with the solution you propose.

[VerdeLuck]

You are deliberately misunderstanding me right now. Most people using the plugin did not code it themselves either, or do you think they all compiled it from the github source? They grabbed the finished plugin and installed it.

It would need just one bad actor to code something like that for Wireshark and publish it, and as we have seen with this issue, there are people weird enough to do that.

No tech literacy is required from the general populace, just from a few coders with a desire to scrape the data.

You are so blind to the general issue that you suggest to make the program FFXIV worse for everyone in an attempt to fix a problem that cannot be fixed with the solution you propose.

I'm not misunderstanding anything, you break the plugin and it makes it 100x more complicated to install and use, which limits the userbase and the damage. You cannot 100% solve the issue of bad actors but basic security on the files and packets for your game through an anticheat is the basic step to getting to something that's not just wide open.
FFXIV isn't any worse for anyone but cheaters if you put in an anticheat and honestly I have no sympathy for botters, cheaters, or people who mod to do things like ahrass other players. They can leave for all I care.

[Sarevok_Thordin]

I'm not misunderstanding anything, you break the plugin and it makes it 100x more complicated to install and use, which limits the userbase and the damage. You cannot 100% solve the issue of bad actors but basic security on the files and packets for your game through an anticheat is the basic step to getting to something that's not just wide open.
FFXIV isn't any worse for anyone but cheaters if you put in an anticheat and honestly I have no sympathy for botters, cheaters, or people who mod to do things like ahrass other players. They can leave for all I care.

For starters, Linux could break with a ring lvl 0 anti cheat......and that's even before we even get into the problems of having kernel level anticheat in the first place. I know Riot caused a bit of an issue on League with vanguard causing boot loops.

[BigCheez]

For starters, Linux could break with a ring lvl 0 anti cheat.

The game doesn't support Linux.

[Saraide]

So now you're requiring people to know how to get, install wireshark, and now modify wireshark with plugins and export and extract that data.
You act like requiring a massive amount more tech literacy is the same as a github repo where you plug it into the dalamud launcher and it installs and works instantly.

You guys are so concerned with a perfect solution with no security holes you're ignoring any mitigation or path forward that reduces the spread and efficacy of the plugin.

StalkerScope is fully operational if only a small group of people use it. Literally just have one guy logging on a data center, travel every server there and open the player search. In a week or two you will have the unique player ID of everyone.

[Loggos]

If someone can code something that clings onto the game to extract data, that individual can also code an addon to Wireshark that filters FFXIV network data and saves it in a nice, readable format. Wireshark openly supports plugins, after all.

Add to the fact that an AntiCheat is a very invasive bit of software with a plethora of problems. What you are not seeing is that implementing an AntiCheat will most likely cause many issues with regular playing folk as well. Imagine the AntiCheat gives a false positive and bans your account. Do you trust Square Enix Support to resolve that, with how they are handling this dilemma right now? What if they buy in an AntiCheat like Denuvo that is proven to be an actual issue with customer PCs, in terms of performance. Too many AC solutions also hook very deep into your computer, running constantly. Just look at all the problems Valorants AntiCheat caused.
Asking for an AntiCheat implementation is literally inviting the devil into your home. What about Steam Deck players, they would be excluded from playing as well.

AntiCheat is literally the worst kind of solution to this problem. I'd rather they implement something properly server side.

I am so glad that FF14 is one of the few(er?) online/live-service games that doesn't use anti-cheat. If they ever implement any kernel-level anti-cheat that will be my cue to leave the PC version.
(And I neither want to nor can buy a PS5 in the foreseeable future so once PS4 support is phased out that would be it for me.)

I've decided against playing many fun games because of kernel-level anti-cheat and as much as I still love FF14 this is just something I am not willing to do for SE, especially given their horrendous player and data security policy.

Sorry, but I do not trust this company to implement any kind of "trustworthy" and "secure" anti-cheat if they can't even or don't even want to protect player IDs.