fflogs and privacy

[Lilapop]

do you really think people spend the time in normal modes to fflogs their party?

Yes? I have seen people being hassled by it myself and other people (either in this thread or another) have pointed out it already happens. Whether either of us wants to think this perfect positive community is capable ofsomething soooo terrible is irrelevant.

[Collin_Sky]

Yes? I have seen people being hassled by it myself and other people (either in this thread or another) have pointed out it already happens. Whether either of us wants to think this perfect positive community is capable ofsomething soooo terrible is irrelevant.

I do not believe that someone fflogs'd you without prior context to make it worth their time doing.
Literally no one is fflogsing everyone as soon as they join normal modes.
Aside from that, like I said, you can tell someone is playing bad by observation, or even more accurately, ACT. It's not something you have to go to an external website to verify.

[Lilapop]

I do not believe that someone fflogs'd you without prior context to make it worth their time doing.
Literally no one is fflogsing everyone as soon as they join normal modes.
Aside from that, like I said, you can tell someone is playing bad by observation, or even more accurately, ACT. It's not something you have to go to an external website to verify.

Whether you believe it or not it's more likely than not happened. Yeah, anyone with eyes can tell a "bad" player. Doesn't change the fact that people will harass people because of poor logs.

[Collin_Sky]

Whether you believe it or not it's more likely than not happened. Yeah, anyone with eyes can tell a "bad" player. Doesn't change the fact that people will harass people because of poor logs.

and if logs were hidden by default you would instead be harassed with "why aren't they visible? obviously you're bad or they wouldn't be hidden"
The types of people you're worried about do not care because they are not logical people.

[Lilapop]

and if logs were hidden by default you would instead be harassed with "why aren't they visible? obviously you're bad or they wouldn't be hidden"
The types of people you're worried about do not care because they are not logical people.

A lot of people aren't logical. If you're expecting gamers to operate solely on logic, you might be in the wrong place for likeminded people. Dying on this hill isn't logical, but I digress.
"why aren't they visible? obviously you're bad or they wouldn't be hidden" is more likely to get laughed out by people around them than someone bringing up specifics values and systematically telling you every little way you're terrible.

[BigCheez]

Whether you believe it or not it's more likely than not happened. Yeah, anyone with eyes can tell a "bad" player. Doesn't change the fact that people will harass people because of poor logs.

It's a question of value vs risk. The value provided by log analysis vastly outweighs the potential risk of someone laughing at someone else's grey parse.

If we're making comparisons to the stalker plogon:

• FFLogs provides legitimate value that has a positive impact on people's gameplay experience. The stalker plogon does not.
• FFLogs does not provide anyone with information that can be used to inhibit your ability to to play the game. The stalker plogon does.
• The data stored on FFLogs cannot be used nefariously by the developers. The data stored by the stalker plogon can.*

*Remember that PlayerScope is still storing your data whether you opt out or not (it just isn't publicly available if you opt out) and we already know that the plugin was developed so that the developer could track who was undercutting him on the marketboard.

It's pretty simple from my point of view. FFLogs is a useful tool that doesn't have much potential to cause harm. The stalker plogon doesn't really do anything useful unless you're specifically looking for additional information about someone that you can use to harass them. You aren't supposed to be able to see someone's alts or their retainers. Given how salty some weirdos get over marketboard activity (or other benign in-game interactions), I don't think making this information publicly available is a good idea. It also enables a lot of other weirdo stalking behaviour.

[Lilapop]

It's a question of value vs risk. The value provided by log analysis vastly outweighs the potential risk of someone laughing at someone else's grey parse.

If we're making comparisons to the stalker plogon:

• FFLogs provides legitimate value that has a positive impact on people's gameplay experience. The stalker plogon does not.
• FFLogs does not provide anyone with information that can be used to inhibit your ability to to play the game. The stalker plogon does.
• The data stored on FFLogs cannot be used nefariously by the developers. The data stored by the stalker plogon can.*

*Remember that PlayerScope is still storing your data whether you opt out or not (it just isn't publicly available if you opt out) and we already know that the plugin was developed so that the developer could track who was undercutting him on the marketboard.

It's pretty simple from my point of view. FFLogs is a useful tool that doesn't have much potential to cause harm. The stalker plogon doesn't really do anything useful unless you're specifically looking for additional information about someone that you can use to harass them. You aren't supposed to be able to see someone's alts or their retainers. Given how salty some weirdos get over marketboard activity (or other benign in-game interactions), I don't think making this information publicly available is a good idea. It also enables a lot of other weirdo stalking behaviour.

The stalker thing is downright malicious, yes. But the people failing to realize FFLogs potential to be malicious as well are simply naive. In a perfect world it's a near perfect tool. We're not in a perfect world, people don't always use information they have with the best of intentions. I agree it has its uses, but I also also see the flipside.

[Kohashi]

The stalker thing is downright malicious, yes. But the people failing to realize FFLogs potential to be malicious as well are simply naive. In a perfect world it's a near perfect tool. We're not in a perfect world, people don't always use information they have with the best of intentions. I agree it has its uses, but I also also see the flipside.

Malicious how? FFlogs has been around for a long time, but apart from the harassment that can happen also without it (let's say because a person is wiping the party repeatedly), I don't get where you are going with it and how that information could be used maliciously. Clue me in please.

[CaedemSanguis]

Whether you believe it or not it's more likely than not happened. Yeah, anyone with eyes can tell a "bad" player. Doesn't change the fact that people will harass people because of poor logs.

as long as you dont give your opinion about high end pve without high end pve experience, or if you apply to a static above your experience, you should be fine

there is no problem with someone playing poorly in casual content

[TaleraRistain]

Literally no one is fflogsing everyone as soon as they join normal modes.

I've been in Discord voice chat with people doing exactly this. They go look up someone's logs when we're in Jeuno, for pete's sake.

Casual content is casual and it's a place where *everyone* can let their hair down. I hit my No Mercy a little late on a dungeon boss? It doesn't matter because it's not going to completely screw my performance like in a Savage raid. We have to have content where logs don't matter and players can relax and have fun with each other and endorsing the idea that someone hiding their logs is a red flag is exactly the sort of mentality we don't need to have. I can count on one hand in nearly 11 years of playing now where I felt a dungeon was taking excessively long, and usually that was with new people. And even if it wasn't, it's so rare that I don't even care. If we're not obsessed with numbers and colors and performance in casual content, then we can enjoy the experience of teamwork with others. And if that's not what you're looking for with roulettes and just want to "get it over with" as quickly as possible and are going to freak out if someone is less than perfect, then why queue up with randoms? I love the unpredictability of roulettes and the challenge of working with what I get when the game gods decide to give me a pear-shaped group.