NA needs to start using the Raid Finder

[Dzian]

The reason we started using Party Finder goes back to Heavensward. Back then, we had no cross-world Party Finder, so we DID use Raid Finder. An average tank in there did not know what a tank swap was. I'd queue into Sophia Extreme and wait for the tank to swap off me and they... didn't. Not a single tank hardly ever did this. It was hopeless. It was one of the first mechanics and none of the tanks were any good at the most basic function of their job, tank busters.

The absolute most casual, most new tanks, that had probably just started tanking moments before they queued, would enter it as if it was casual content, and had no idea what they were doing. And didn't learn as the pulls went on. Let alone know what mitigation was.

So once we got cross-world Party Finder, people began to migrate to it, for obvious reasons. The casual players that have no clue what they are doing would not be brave enough to join a party they can be kicked from and troll it by having not done the most basic research or preparation on how to play their job ie. enough to press "Provoke" so the party can progress.

They did still use Raid Finder for Zurvan but there is a meme some players will have heard from back then of "skip soar" which seemed to finally push everyone else to PF.

Honestly raid finder for Sophia ex was fine I got most of my totems there. Zurvan ex killed raid finder because literally every group was 1 tank 5 dps and the raid finder couldn't accommodate that.

As a tool it would have been so much better if the filters just worked properly from the offset. Zurvan basically killed raid finder. But it was done for much earlier than that simply because the filters didn't work. Someone who'd never set foot in the content could queue duty completion phase 3. Instead of practice phase 1. That was a fairly crushing blow to the raid finders future.

It should have had milestones and checkpoints. You should never have been able to queue duty completion if you'd never got the boss down to 10% and seen enrage. You should never be able to queue practice phase 3 until you successfully made it to that point without ko...

Just being able to roll straight in duty completion phase 3. And expect to be carried isnwhat killed thebraid finder and also what causes a massive number of pf problems

[MoofiaBossVal]

We are incapable of having a mature discussion about why the pull failed, was it bad luck? carelessness? bad snapshot? someone just has no idea what they're doing?

The source of the issue is that FF14 is a retail WoW clone where the game is so easy with trash fodder quests, and duty finder dungeons and trials that automatically teleports you to the instance with other randos you will never see again, that people spend 400+ hours going through the visual novel story and reaching level 100 having never made a friend. It is not like FF11 or vanilla WoW where the game was hard right out of the game and incentivized you to quickly find friends to progress through the game with just to do a levelling party or dungeons, which then leads to the formation of guilds before you reach level cap abd start endgame raiding. FF14 does not develop the community or bonds that are needed to coordinate raiding and withstand some tribulation. So when solo players reach level cap and decide to dip their toes into "endgame", they go into it with the mercenary mentality of PUGing where everyone is just a merc viewing each other as cogs in a machine to be replaced for the best cog. "These other players (who I don't care about) are holding me back (and I don't care to waste my time helping them). I am going to just flip through groups until the stars align (and I get carried)".

And people are coming home from work to unwind, do not want to be pointed out as the weak link holding back 23 others, and it just takes one mistake to qipe so chances are that even a veteran will make a mistake too. So people might be trying to be gracious in the hope that other people will be gracious when they make a mistake too. But this is a game design problem where everyone has too much responsibility. In WoW raids only a handful of roles have that much responsibility, and can be assigned to the best players, so less adept players aren't wiping the group and can still participate and complete and have fun.

[Purrnauskis]

The source of the issue is that FF14 is a retail WoW clone where the game is so easy with trash fodder quests, and duty finder dungeons and trials that automatically teleports you to the instance with other randos you will never see again, that people spend 400+ hours going through the visual novel story and reaching level 100 having never made a friend. It is not like FF11 or vanilla WoW where the game was hard right out of the game and incentivized you to quickly find friends to progress through the game with just to do a levelling party or dungeons, which then leads to the formation of guilds before you reach level cap abd start endgame raiding. FF14 does not develop the community or bonds that are needed to coordinate raiding and withstand some tribulation. So when solo players reach level cap and decide to dip their toes into "endgame", they go into it with the mercenary mentality of PUGing where everyone is just a merc viewing each other as cogs in a machine to be replaced for the best cog. "These other players (who I don't care about) are holding me back (and I don't care to waste my time helping them). I am going to just flip through groups until the stars align (and I get carried)".

And people are coming home from work to unwind, do not want to be pointed out as the weak link holding back 23 others, and it just takes one mistake to qipe so chances are that even a veteran will make a mistake too. So people might be trying to be gracious in the hope that other people will be gracious when they make a mistake too. But this is a game design problem where everyone has too much responsibility. In WoW raids only a handful of roles have that much responsibility, and can be assigned to the best players, so less adept players aren't wiping the group and can still participate and complete and have fun.

Classic WoW never was intended to be hard, infact it was meant to be casual, and it never was hard. People were just bad. Quite like the average FFXIV player who struggles with expert roulette mechanics.

[DPZ2]

NA as usual will make everyone join out-of-game FF14 discord #57 for scheduled organized runs where everyone listens to the raid leader over voice.

In the [in]famous words of Dives: "50 DKP minus!"

[Chasingstars]

And just accepting if you had made a mistake, learn from it, own it. Don't be a PirateSoftware.

[TaleraRistain]

The problem is that Raid Finder is there. It's just not used.

Are you proposing SE put in measures to make it either more attractive or required? The carrot could be a decent idea. Maybe offer some of the filtering options that people have asked for on PF to RF instead to draw players to use it. I wouldn't think the stick would be a good idea. Players are good at getting around restrictions they don't like.