NA needs to start using the Raid Finder

[OranKells]

Is the chaotic raid tuned a little too high? Maybe. I won't argue that, It's very difficult to carry anyone through, one person's mistake can snowball and ruin the whole fight and no amount of item level bloat will save you from 2+ people missing a tower soak.

But the bigger problem I've had with this content is attitude of so many in the party finder. I've never seen a group last more than 2 or 3 pulls. Someone will, legitimately or not, rage quit after a wipe. Then we either wait to refill the party finder which can take time, or what has been more likely there is a mass exodus or the party just disbands all together, only for the majority of that group to join the next one on the list in the party finder. We'll have the same 10-15 people who will make the same mistakes and we will do the whole dance again until either the bad apples get gud or don't make it into the next pf and we'll do this for a few hours because we seem to as a whole lack the maturity and/or communication skills to provide constructive criticism or even just vote kick the one or two bad players.

With the raid finder, you wouldn't have as many rage quits as they would suffer the 30 minute penalty, There would be an option to vote abandon if the group isn't up to snuff. and randomness of the queue I'd hope to get a completely fresh group instead of slight variations on the same one for hours on end as we migrate from one pf to another. It would enforce the slightest amount of patience and good behavior

The cons have always been the fear of getting people unprepared and unwilling to learn the fights expecting to be carried; barely meeting the item level requirements turning out to be more a hindrance than a help. Which is fair, Its the reason why mentor roulette is such a nightmare. But for the chaotic raid at least, I don't think item level has been the barrier to success for most, its been the poor communication, and maybe one or two people consistently missing towers who you could just vote kick and probably not run into again for at least a little while.

[St0rmy]

Honestly I see the logic behind your point but I think the culture is too set on PF, which is what I would prefer anyway. I've given up entirely on clearing the chaotic due to just how difficult it is to get a full PF as well as one that isn't prog lying or doesn't have someone who rage quits after 2 wipes, Maybe if I can find a discord server for it or something. Anyways, I think the downsides of the Raid Finder outweigh the downsides of PF. PF You can at least be (relatively) certain everyone will be using a specific strategy or guide. DF people might be split on what one to use or come into disagreements on what role they want. I think RF would have even more selfish people expecting to get carried or people who are genuinely just clueless to what kind of content Chaotic is. I think the control you have over who is in your group in PF (keeping certain players out, i.e people you've black listed) makes up for the negatives there are.

[Jeeqbit]

Party Finder has pros and cons. I do not like Party Finder culture a lot of reasons, and like it for others. Raid Finder would help remove the "someone is the party leader" factor and reduce the anxiety of participating, but it wouldn't help with most of the problems.

People could still leave, not be very good, play around with markers for ages, run out of time to play due to real life, you're not playing with a consistent party like you do in a static so your progress resets, and so on. It also could add new problems like being at a different phase than everyone else.

The reason we started using Party Finder goes back to Heavensward. Back then, we had no cross-world Party Finder, so we DID use Raid Finder. An average tank in there did not know what a tank swap was. I'd queue into Sophia Extreme and wait for the tank to swap off me and they... didn't. Not a single tank hardly ever did this. It was hopeless. It was one of the first mechanics and none of the tanks were any good at the most basic function of their job, tank busters.

The absolute most casual, most new tanks, that had probably just started tanking moments before they queued, would enter it as if it was casual content, and had no idea what they were doing. And didn't learn as the pulls went on. Let alone know what mitigation was.

So once we got cross-world Party Finder, people began to migrate to it, for obvious reasons. The casual players that have no clue what they are doing would not be brave enough to join a party they can be kicked from and troll it by having not done the most basic research or preparation on how to play their job ie. enough to press "Provoke" so the party can progress.

They did still use Raid Finder for Zurvan but there is a meme some players will have heard from back then of "skip soar" which seemed to finally push everyone else to PF.

[Lilapop]

24 person statics will be the norm.

[MoofiaBossVal]

NA as usual will make everyone join out-of-game FF14 discord #57 for scheduled organized runs where everyone listens to the raid leader over voice.

[Ath192]

Honestly I see the logic behind your point but I think the culture is too set on PF, which is what I would prefer anyway. I've given up entirely on clearing the chaotic due to just how difficult it is to get a full PF as well as one that isn't prog lying or doesn't have someone who rage quits after 2 wipes, Maybe if I can find a discord server for it or something. Anyways, I think the downsides of the Raid Finder outweigh the downsides of PF. PF You can at least be (relatively) certain everyone will be using a specific strategy or guide. DF people might be split on what one to use or come into disagreements on what role they want. I think RF would have even more selfish people expecting to get carried or people who are genuinely just clueless to what kind of content Chaotic is. I think the control you have over who is in your group in PF (keeping certain players out, i.e people you've black listed) makes up for the negatives there are.

Just study and stick to it. It took me 2 days to clear. But those two days I was really committed (about 4 hours each) when people leave, stay and reform if it's possible. If not, move to another of course. Also, you have to move to Aether to find groups that fill, I wish we could stay in Primal but you have to be pragmatic and Aether is better for filling.

And due to the nature of the content it has few things to do with whether you are personally good or not, the only thing you can do is your part and hope everyone else does too.

[Clockworks]

NA as usual will make everyone join out-of-game FF14 discord #57 for scheduled organized runs where everyone listens to the raid leader over voice.

Are you saying you'll have to actually socialize in an MMORPG ?

That sure sounds horrible, I hope people will be okay

[MoofiaBossVal]

Are you saying you'll have to actually socialize in an MMORPG ?

That sure sounds horrible, I hope people will be okay

No, the game does not facilitate natural socialization and the forming of friendships inside the game itself like classic MMOs did. As for the FF14 discords, I do not think it is good for each sector of the game to be monopolized by cliques, or for information to be locked away in corners of the internet that are not indexed and are aggravating to search through. Want to do Baldesion Arsenal? Got to join that group's BA server, because good luck forming a BA run ingame. Want to prog a criterion dungeon or an ultimate raid? Gotta join a discord. PvP? Discord. Want to find out what your class' endgame rotation and stat priority is? Discord. The list goes on.

[brinn12]

Are you saying you'll have to actually socialize in an MMORPG ?

That sure sounds horrible, I hope people will be okay

It was pretty clear, actually. They are saying people will be forced to socialize outside of the game, not in FFXIV. Which is the issue. It's content made so that any party can clear without voice chat.

[brinn12]

Discord requirement was already a bad thing, but at least it was uncommon, especially in 8-man content. Now we have a 3rd party stalking website which has a profile page for each character, and yours must be public and have a log of the required prog point.