Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

[AllenThyl]

The issue is NA / EU mentality, which is for too great a part "just here for the xp". There is actually a way to solve this, and that is more moderation. There need to be hard (and fast) consequences for people who engage in lethargic behavior / feeding, as well as all their enablers. Posting anything that undermines another player's motivation to participate and win ("it's just a game", "it's not even real pvp", "lol don't take it all so serious") should all fall under the umbrella of nuisance behavior and obstruction of play. There is a certain irony that a community so averse to any kind of "toxicity" is so okay with dismissing and talking down other people for wanting to actually have a good pvp match, when they voluntarily joined a pvp match, but aren't remotely interested in pvp.

[Archeron]

Keep your fantasies to yourself, please 0/

As a monk i just /huming first 5 minutes of the match, beacuse, what i should to do? Call in ally chat? Blame on them? Team anyway didnt react. The players had already consciously decided to give the round to yellow (which later happened).

Your words. This isn't a fantasy. You admitted to doing this. Self awareness helps when you're on a thread shooting down suggestions for game improvements when you are literally admitting to lethargic gameplay.

There is and was a lot. Most of them maked for korean market so they did not in great demand on EU \ NA.

I don't see why the markets intended for the games matter. The systems these games have implemented for the PvP have worked. Which is why they're popular and why FFXIV is falling off.

What do you expect from FL then? It will be even more clumsy and primitive. And given the fact that all balance corrections are based only on СС, then FL obviously, if it gets quality changes, it will most likely be in a new FF MMO.

I have said, multiple times, that I want Frontlines to be both, fun, and competitive. That can be easily achieved by implementing simple solutions that have been used by other MMO's for years. It is not that difficult to balance jobs seperately from CC and FL. The easiest change that wouldn't affect CC would be to cap AoE's to hit the 5 closest people. Frontlines was enjoyable in 6.1-7.0, and literally would have been perfectly fine had they adjusted Salted Earth and killed the premades off. Instead we've got a MCH/BRD/WHM meta, the same maps we've been playing on for years, and the mode is completely devoid of any reason for people to win, and prioritizes quick matches instead.

You either don't catch the japanese vibe, or you don't understand what the root of the problem is. If a developer has never developed a competitive type of games, there is no guarantee that he will ever create something worthy

"Japanese vibe", is a new excuse I'll have to add to the collection. If they have never developed a PvP oriented game, How about hiring people who do have experience, with the billions of dollars they've earned from this game? here's an even better idea, how about Listening to community feedback surrounding PvP, instead of waiting 6 months to fix problems plaguing the game mode? Literally no better place to learn about the common problems afflicting your PVP mode. Feedback is something that their successful competitors act on, and they do not let game breaking problems persist for half a year. (Like Damage reduction in 6.1 that made Ninja and other jobs practically invincible. Paladins being able to Limit break and capture nodes with invulnerability, ect.)

If Square Enix isn't capable of making positive improvements to the mode, I'd rather they do nothing. Here's a North American "Vibe" for you; If it's not broken, don't fix it. I was fine with everything except Salted Earth and Scholar plague stacks prior to 7.1 that empowered premades. Frontlines matches were fun when you weren't playing premades back then. Now? They're a chore to play through and most jobs aren't even fun to play anymore. I can't even blame anyone for refusing to queue up.

[IceEyes]

Your words. This isn't a fantasy.

My words was about huming first five minutes when i watching how 40 stuborns trying to kill each one on one triangle when third team afk farming points. Feel the differnt.
You phatasied out everything else. Moreover, if I see that the team is playing completely thoughtlessly and irresponsibly, I do this always and am still more productive per match than more than 40-50% of the players.

why FFXIV is falling off.

To fall, you have to be on top. FF14 has never been on top in terms of PvP. From all the people who have been playing for a long time or recently, I have never heard positive feedback about PvP in this game. Except for those who have only played FF14 and have nothing to compare it to.

Frontlines was enjoyable in 6.1-7.0, and literally would have been perfectly fine had they adjusted Salted Earth and killed the premades off.

This is lie for me. Premades strong because they work good as a team. U can put any 4 jobs in good premade and they still will destroy most of players. On any jobs. Premades just prefer most effective options (like in PvE, lol). If that will not aoe burst meta, then that will be range-assist meta when 4 players always focusing one target and clicks out everyone in turn. Just a week ago I saw a premade with Drk and Astro (what typical for 6.1-7.0 meta) what destroyed both team of hamsters and end game with 70+ assist on each player. For me, personally, nerfs changed nothing. 70% of players what u see in matches is exp lickers. U cant change that fact. And if u will not have that exp lickers u will not see match never or will obtain queue with one hour expectations.no

"Japanese vibe". How about hiring people who do have experience, with the billions of dollars they've earned from this game?

You can always try being a general manager. Or you can't. Or you can accept reality. And the reality is that we constantly get great new JRPG with graphics, interface and fonts from 2007. RPG of the year btw.

FF14 has so many conservative decisions and flaws from the moment you registered your account. Do you seriously think this game is capable of revolutionary leaps in PvP asspects?

To be clear, I'm not defending the developer. It's just sincerely weird to criticize decisions that are so bad that they can't be rationally explained except... "We looked at the statistics and decided to do it differently".

[Mawlzy]

The issue is NA / EU mentality, which is for too great a part "just here for the xp". There is actually a way to solve this, and that is more moderation. There need to be hard (and fast) consequences for people who engage in lethargic behavior / feeding, as well as all their enablers. Posting anything that undermines another player's motivation to participate and win ("it's just a game", "it's not even real pvp", "lol don't take it all so serious") should all fall under the umbrella of nuisance behavior and obstruction of play. There is a certain irony that a community so averse to any kind of "toxicity" is so okay with dismissing and talking down other people for wanting to actually have a good pvp match, when they voluntarily joined a pvp match, but aren't remotely interested in pvp.

!!!

I agree with all of this. Have an updoot.

[FlopsyPrince]

The issue is NA / EU mentality, which is for too great a part "just here for the xp". There is actually a way to solve this, and that is more moderation. There need to be hard (and fast) consequences for people who engage in lethargic behavior / feeding, as well as all their enablers. Posting anything that undermines another player's motivation to participate and win ("it's just a game", "it's not even real pvp", "lol don't take it all so serious") should all fall under the umbrella of nuisance behavior and obstruction of play. There is a certain irony that a community so averse to any kind of "toxicity" is so okay with dismissing and talking down other people for wanting to actually have a good pvp match, when they voluntarily joined a pvp match, but aren't remotely interested in pvp.

This is one of the reasons I haven't even tried PvP. I would almost certainly suck and get labelled like this as being exploitative.

And some wonder why it is so hard to find those to participate!

[Archeron]

This is one of the reasons I haven't even tried PvP. I would almost certainly suck and get labelled like this as being exploitative.

And some wonder why it is so hard to find those to participate!

Yes, it is too much to ask someone that joins a frontlines match to target the enemies and press one of their many abilities to deal damage to them, or to not AFK. We ask too much of the casual PvP players when we want them to contribute literally *Anything* to the team. Similarily, I can't believe people expect me to deal dps in Alliance raids, and avoid collecting vuln stacks/dying. Why can't people just carry me? I can't believe they expect me to actually contribute to the clear.

[Mawlzy]

This is one of the reasons I haven't even tried PvP. I would almost certainly suck and get labelled like this as being exploitative.

And some wonder why it is so hard to find those to participate!

I'd agree that everyone sucks at first, but what that tends to mean is that rookies die a lot. If you engage the enemy, press your attack buttons in a random order, and hit recuperate when someone hits you, your end of match numbers will demonstrate you were trying.

[LibitIncarne]

Second place should get *some* rewards but 3rd place doesn't deserve anything.

[Exmo]

I'm more convinced if 2nd and/or 3rd place get no rewards, as soon as people think it's clear they will lose, they'll just see continuing as a waste of time and they'll exit the duty.

[Atreus]

The issue is NA / EU mentality, which is for too great a part "just here for the xp". There is actually a way to solve this, and that is more moderation. There need to be hard (and fast) consequences for people who engage in lethargic behavior / feeding, as well as all their enablers. Posting anything that undermines another player's motivation to participate and win ("it's just a game", "it's not even real pvp", "lol don't take it all so serious") should all fall under the umbrella of nuisance behavior and obstruction of play. There is a certain irony that a community so averse to any kind of "toxicity" is so okay with dismissing and talking down other people for wanting to actually have a good pvp match, when they voluntarily joined a pvp match, but aren't remotely interested in pvp.

^ this is the real issue. Also I don't think killing rewards for 2nd and 3rd place is going to have the effect people want. Yes you want to get rid of leeches and people there to be lethargic, but you also want to attract people who want to play and win. Scaling rewards UP for 1st and 2nd place and reducing it for 3rd is a good start. Designing more, nice rewards for 1st place would be even better. These ADS mounts ain't it.