Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

[Sinstrel]

They could have 2nd and 3rd place only recieve PvP rewards (battle pass xp and wolf marks) while PvE exp and tomes are an additional reward only given to 1st place.

[Atreus]

The issue is NA / EU mentality, which is for too great a part "just here for the xp". There is actually a way to solve this, and that is more moderation. There need to be hard (and fast) consequences for people who engage in lethargic behavior / feeding, as well as all their enablers. Posting anything that undermines another player's motivation to participate and win ("it's just a game", "it's not even real pvp", "lol don't take it all so serious") should all fall under the umbrella of nuisance behavior and obstruction of play. There is a certain irony that a community so averse to any kind of "toxicity" is so okay with dismissing and talking down other people for wanting to actually have a good pvp match, when they voluntarily joined a pvp match, but aren't remotely interested in pvp.

^ this is the real issue. Also I don't think killing rewards for 2nd and 3rd place is going to have the effect people want. Yes you want to get rid of leeches and people there to be lethargic, but you also want to attract people who want to play and win. Scaling rewards UP for 1st and 2nd place and reducing it for 3rd is a good start. Designing more, nice rewards for 1st place would be even better. These ADS mounts ain't it.

[IceEyes]

I mean honestly can ANYONE explain this logic?.

You either don't catch the japanese vibe, or you don't understand what the root of the problem is. If a developer has never developed a competitive type of games, there is no guarantee that he will ever create something worthy. We literally get a MOBa format PvP in MMO. Primitive, as simple and lazy as possible. Many people even liked it and it is in demand. At some point, it was even unironically promoted as competitive with streams and events.

What do you expect from FL then? It will be even more clumsy and primitive. And given the fact that all balance corrections are based only on СС, then FL obviously, if it gets quality changes, it will most likely be in a new FF MMO.

It's not like there are other MMORPG's on the market that have figured out how to make enjoyable PvP for years at this point.

There is and was a lot. Most of them maked for korean market so they did not in great demand on EU \ NA.

you sat and AFK'd at spawn doing nothing.

Keep your fantasies to yourself, please 0/

they're even aware of anything going on in PvP at all.

I allready answer on that in other thread. That calling "excel-table symptom". And that not incurable.

[Archeron]

Keep your fantasies to yourself, please 0/

As a monk i just /huming first 5 minutes of the match, beacuse, what i should to do? Call in ally chat? Blame on them? Team anyway didnt react. The players had already consciously decided to give the round to yellow (which later happened).

Your words. This isn't a fantasy. You admitted to doing this. Self awareness helps when you're on a thread shooting down suggestions for game improvements when you are literally admitting to lethargic gameplay.

There is and was a lot. Most of them maked for korean market so they did not in great demand on EU \ NA.

I don't see why the markets intended for the games matter. The systems these games have implemented for the PvP have worked. Which is why they're popular and why FFXIV is falling off.

What do you expect from FL then? It will be even more clumsy and primitive. And given the fact that all balance corrections are based only on СС, then FL obviously, if it gets quality changes, it will most likely be in a new FF MMO.

I have said, multiple times, that I want Frontlines to be both, fun, and competitive. That can be easily achieved by implementing simple solutions that have been used by other MMO's for years. It is not that difficult to balance jobs seperately from CC and FL. The easiest change that wouldn't affect CC would be to cap AoE's to hit the 5 closest people. Frontlines was enjoyable in 6.1-7.0, and literally would have been perfectly fine had they adjusted Salted Earth and killed the premades off. Instead we've got a MCH/BRD/WHM meta, the same maps we've been playing on for years, and the mode is completely devoid of any reason for people to win, and prioritizes quick matches instead.

You either don't catch the japanese vibe, or you don't understand what the root of the problem is. If a developer has never developed a competitive type of games, there is no guarantee that he will ever create something worthy

"Japanese vibe", is a new excuse I'll have to add to the collection. If they have never developed a PvP oriented game, How about hiring people who do have experience, with the billions of dollars they've earned from this game? here's an even better idea, how about Listening to community feedback surrounding PvP, instead of waiting 6 months to fix problems plaguing the game mode? Literally no better place to learn about the common problems afflicting your PVP mode. Feedback is something that their successful competitors act on, and they do not let game breaking problems persist for half a year. (Like Damage reduction in 6.1 that made Ninja and other jobs practically invincible. Paladins being able to Limit break and capture nodes with invulnerability, ect.)

If Square Enix isn't capable of making positive improvements to the mode, I'd rather they do nothing. Here's a North American "Vibe" for you; If it's not broken, don't fix it. I was fine with everything except Salted Earth and Scholar plague stacks prior to 7.1 that empowered premades. Frontlines matches were fun when you weren't playing premades back then. Now? They're a chore to play through and most jobs aren't even fun to play anymore. I can't even blame anyone for refusing to queue up.

[IceEyes]

Your words. This isn't a fantasy.

My words was about huming first five minutes when i watching how 40 stuborns trying to kill each one on one triangle when third team afk farming points. Feel the differnt.
You phatasied out everything else. Moreover, if I see that the team is playing completely thoughtlessly and irresponsibly, I do this always and am still more productive per match than more than 40-50% of the players.

why FFXIV is falling off.

To fall, you have to be on top. FF14 has never been on top in terms of PvP. From all the people who have been playing for a long time or recently, I have never heard positive feedback about PvP in this game. Except for those who have only played FF14 and have nothing to compare it to.

Frontlines was enjoyable in 6.1-7.0, and literally would have been perfectly fine had they adjusted Salted Earth and killed the premades off.

This is lie for me. Premades strong because they work good as a team. U can put any 4 jobs in good premade and they still will destroy most of players. On any jobs. Premades just prefer most effective options (like in PvE, lol). If that will not aoe burst meta, then that will be range-assist meta when 4 players always focusing one target and clicks out everyone in turn. Just a week ago I saw a premade with Drk and Astro (what typical for 6.1-7.0 meta) what destroyed both team of hamsters and end game with 70+ assist on each player. For me, personally, nerfs changed nothing. 70% of players what u see in matches is exp lickers. U cant change that fact. And if u will not have that exp lickers u will not see match never or will obtain queue with one hour expectations.no

"Japanese vibe". How about hiring people who do have experience, with the billions of dollars they've earned from this game?

You can always try being a general manager. Or you can't. Or you can accept reality. And the reality is that we constantly get great new JRPG with graphics, interface and fonts from 2007. RPG of the year btw.

FF14 has so many conservative decisions and flaws from the moment you registered your account. Do you seriously think this game is capable of revolutionary leaps in PvP asspects?

To be clear, I'm not defending the developer. It's just sincerely weird to criticize decisions that are so bad that they can't be rationally explained except... "We looked at the statistics and decided to do it differently".

[IceEyes]

I don't know why it can't be a pvp game?

In probably thousand of FL matches and two years of play, I was convinced that this game was simply not made for PvP. Lately the game has been doing poorly even in PvE and MSQ. I still have the feeling that PvP here exists only "for show". Just beacuse in every game always u can find some category of players like me, who prefer just PvP for fun. So i get my "pvp" but in fact that looks like it is not a priority and is not planned to change radically.

I mean, I rarely got excited about the PvP in this game, but I constantly had bad experiences.

But, for example, in other PvP-oriented MMOs, I don’t have such a feeling. I still experience negativity, but it's a different type of emotion.

I understand that you would like more exciting matches. I would also like more exciting matches. But, at the moment, the only way the game offers me is to join the primade and wipe hamsters by spamming macros and AoE. Its something like experience from 2007, but in 2007 that feeled still better in other games.

I also understand that FL might be interesting on paper. But this requires about twenty responsible player in ever team. But this is practically impossible if we talking about Light DC. People will not play on tanks, if they dont want. They will not stay around scholar to obtain buff from him. They will not pushing beacuse we have BH and KDA system so most of them will worry about personal count, not the overall result.

I am privileged enough to have experienced really really good games during organised pvp events

Thats what i talk about. You gather as an organized group with a specific purpose. Having fun and fight. This is the main point of PvP, conceptually. Obviously, you get a positive result, unlike the average random FL through roulette. But u cant change mind of most of players in this game. We just small percent. So we get a small percent of content. Thats fair, but it's hurt.

[LibitIncarne]

Second place should get *some* rewards but 3rd place doesn't deserve anything.

[Exmo]

I'm more convinced if 2nd and/or 3rd place get no rewards, as soon as people think it's clear they will lose, they'll just see continuing as a waste of time and they'll exit the duty.

[Valence]

What do you think is going to happen once people understand that if a game looks doomed, they can just stop trying and make the game end faster since they won't get any xp? Even the best pvpers will do this, it's not even a matter of skill.

[Mawlzy]

What do you think is going to happen once people understand that if a game looks doomed, they can just stop trying and make the game end faster since they won't get any xp? Even the best pvpers will do this, it's not even a matter of skill.

Two questions:

1. Doesn't this already happen?

2. Does it really matter?