Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

[Mawlzy]

It's mogtome season!

I notice that during mogtome, the player participation in online communities around pvp rises quite a lot. Which is encouraging that a lot of people are trying to win and trying to get better or trying to get into RW or FL. It's great!
However, I wouldn't be OP if I wouldn't complain about reward structure during mogtome
IMO the current 5 mogtomes per win and 3 mogtomes per loss, is... slightly misbalanced.

I think mogtome is a great example of what additional rewards many commenters on this thread have suggested to encourage playing to win behaviour.
However, playing to win sometimes would take longer games, which makes farming a loss way more efficient way to get more mogtomes quicker. The thinking is along the lines of: "ok if i lose 2 x 7 minutes games quickly, this gives me more mogtomes than 1 x 15min game which we might not even win. So let's just aim for a loss!"

I think balancing mogtomes 5 per win and 2 per loss would have been better. Or would it have been better if there was 0 tomestone rewards for loss, as you already get rewarded with exp/tomes/series?

Thoughts?

I'd remove FL from the mogtome event altogether. Not only would that get a bunch of people exposed to RW, it would avoid the miserable matches in FL we get during the event.

Typical observation from yesterday: seven players with less than 70k (!) damage dealt, with two riding together round the edge of the map not engaging at all.

[TofuLove]

I like that the premise of additional rewards brings more people into PVP. And I know for a lot of people this was the gateway into becoming pvp regular: They started playing during mogtome and stuck around because they enjoyed it.

I don't like that farming 2nd or 3rd place is used as a tactic to farm rewards.
A friend told me that when mogtome was first run, any participation in frontlines was rewarded the same - 5 tomes. They said that during that time the matches were being thrown very heavily and there was 0 effort from players because they knew that they would get rewarded the same anyway.

[Mawlzy]

I like that the premise of additional rewards brings more people into PVP. And I know for a lot of people this was the gateway into becoming pvp regular: They started playing during mogtome and stuck around because they enjoyed it.

I don't like that farming 2nd or 3rd place is used as a tactic to farm rewards.
A friend told me that when mogtome was first run, any participation in frontlines was rewarded the same - 5 tomes. They said that during that time the matches were being thrown very heavily and there was 0 effort from players because they knew that they would get rewarded the same anyway.

Funny thing about the lengths some people go to min-max rewards is that they're frequently nonsensical.

For example, let's suppose you're playing Onsal and after 5 minutes your team is trailing by ~400 points. That can be overcome, but even when the third place team does make such a comeback, the match is going to be long.

Rather than attempting to throw (which, unless you're Q-synching with similarly deranged individuals is quite difficult, at least in a way that markedly shortens the match), the mogtome min-max is probably to quit, and during the 30-min penalty run a couple of GATEs at the saucer.

It's an infuriating FF14 paradox.

1. For people to engage in content, the content must offer rewards.
2. When rewards are offered, people who hate the content feel FOMO-compelled to engage with it.

And round and round we go.

The only positive I've noticed recently is more vote kicks are getting through.

[Sarevok_Thordin]

If this change went through I would simply not play it.

Competitive Matchmaking should never be unrewarded.

[Waaltar]

The rewards should be equal for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in frontlines, and equal for win or lose in rival wings, because both frontlines and rival wings are plagued with match fixing all event long, like way worse than normal and the whole reason is people are so selfish and impatient and want the slightly faster rate of tomes from winning. Equal rewards = much less reason to fix matches.

[TofuLove]

The rewards should be equal for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in frontlines, and equal for win or lose in rival wings, because both frontlines and rival wings are plagued with match fixing all event long, like way worse than normal and the whole reason is people are so selfish and impatient and want the slightly faster rate of tomes from winning. Equal rewards = much less reason to fix matches.

What do you mean by "match fixing"? I have played this mode for few years now, and have never seen win trading or anything of the sort. I have seen spite pushing, griefing and non participation, but never actual win trading, even in qsyncs. Could you provide some examples?

Non participation to me is the ultimate problem, really. If you less rewards for throwing - you'd be encouraged to actually play. To me it's common sense.

[Mawlzy]

What do you mean by "match fixing"? I have played this mode for few years now, and have never seen win trading or anything of the sort. I have seen spite pushing, griefing and non participation, but never actual win trading, even in qsyncs. Could you provide some examples?

Non participation to me is the ultimate problem, really. If you less rewards for throwing - you'd be encouraged to actually play. To me it's common sense.

You will occasionally see Discord collusion that impacts the outcome, but it's rare. And it probably doesn't even reach the level of win-trading, merely a side effect of padding and personal vendettas.

Lethargic play is the central problem. But as I've said before, carrots haven't worked in reducing it. We need a big stick.

[Aneshda]

I wrote it long time ago and I write it again.
Frontline second and third Place should get only 3-5 Poesie and nothing more.
Not even Exp. Maybe Players will putt then some efford into PvP and stop to beeing afk or with super less damage, for Millions of free Exp and tons of other Rewards.

[TofuLove]

Hi All!

I thought to ping this post with my current thoughts on BH changes and how these are affecting and will further affect the gameplay. Overall I think the changes are good and make the game more fun when everyone is participating. Also it's nice to see a lot of players returning - it really evens out the games when there are more good players across all teams. Games are more fast paced and dying isn't as punishing since it's easy to regain BH.

However, on a number of occasions I was queued into grand company where majority of players were clearly only there for exp/new seasonal rewards/tomes.
Due to BH change - it's super easy for grand company that's trying to win to get more BH quicker. Which effectively means in grand companies where people are not participating - throwing can happen even faster and more brutal. The contrast is very stark. After which it's quite difficult to catch up with the team that just doesn't want to win.

Again, I think BH change is a positive change, but I think rebalancing/additional incentives for winning and disincentives for losing are a must.

We are only in the first week of updates, and once good pvp players drop off and stop participating - I feel like this contrast between those not wanting to participate and wanting to win will only get starker.

[Valence]

I'm very miffed about those BH changes. I do agree with shifting the gains over toward assists and less toward kills, but the sheer gains are what I find very frustrating. It's so easy to gain that there is no sense of accomplishment anymore. They need to dial down the overall gains. 2 per assist was fine, it's 10 per kills that wasn't. Perhaps 3 per assist and 6 per kill would be better if they don't want to create a fairer system where the points are split between all assists.