Please let us keep our abilities on sync down

[Collin_Sky]

Reminds me of the people who were trying to nerf Paladin's Hallowed Ground meanwhile Warrior was yucking it up with best damage, best self sustain, going Holmgang back to back on tank busters due to its much lower cooldown xD.

This is more of a problem with how infrequently SE uses tank busters in fights anymore. As a tank main I'm so tired of rotating kitchen sink and invuln. I miss having to plan my CDs.

[Shougun]

This is more of a problem with how infrequently SE uses tank busters in fights anymore. As a tank main I'm so tired of rotating kitchen sink and invuln. I miss having to plan my CDs.

I mean at the time my of example warrior was able to take two tank busters, like stacking those vuln mechanics (that you would normally swap for). But I get what you're saying too, I just want to specify that the time I recall was when people were wowed by the tree and didn't see the forest and in effect were attempting to nerf an underperforming job when another job was doing it all better, just because hallowed ground had that wow factor.


Defensives are pretty much rotational now, feels like another part of the combo kit. If you do that in normal content you're a god lol.


It's hard to do (honestly game dev is work, so none of it is 'easy' exactly, jobs are jobs), but I wish they had diverted tank style. They had some base for it, but overtime they're less different. I don't have a great solution for extremely sensitive content, that's just always a nightmare, but for normal content it doesn't even sound important at the difficulty level we have currently lol.

[Striker44]

I don't get why people keep bringing up Benediction as if it's an insurmountable design hurdle. Essential Dignity will almost always achieve the exact same result sub-50 and is accessible at level 15.

Absolutes are always both the easiest to point to and the hardest to solve, since the usual argument for why "keeping abilities is okay" relies on adjusting potencies, but that becomes irrelevant for things like 100% heal or 100% invulnerabilities. (Also, Essential Dignity is an AST skill, not a WHM skill. And "almost always" isn't "100% guaranteed always".)

For me I don't see this as an issue, never really did I need many defensives in leveling dungeons. And if I did, I overpulled intentionally, knowing that I need to throw defensives.

The issue is that you can overpull when you have those extra defensives without affecting the group. Without them, the healer will need to throw extra heals your way, which means losing DPS and thus taking longer to clear the dungeon. If a high-level tank keeps its extra defensives when doing a low-level dungeon, you now have noticeably faster runs compared to an at-level tank. Core design requirement failed.

As for your Example with WHM, everything below lvl 50 almost only needs one or two Cure II to fully heal a player, yes its not oGCD like Benediction is but the healing required in low level dungeons is minimal to none depending on who is tanking.

Again, as soon as you introduce the difference, it's no longer valid. Even though it's extremely rare to see a party that's either entirely new or almost entirely new today, that still remains the design focus. The "depending on who is tanking" is key. Every extra GCD heal a Healer needs to throw either because the tank doesn't have additional defensive CD's or the Healer doesn't have additional oGCD heals slows down the run and makes an at-level player a liability.

I can't emphasize enough that this is the single most important point SE has repeatedly put forward about why you lose abilities when syncing. Ignoring that point is just going to lead to exercises in futility in frustration. The first and most important question to ask yourself when proposing a solution to syncing is "Will this naturally make an at-level player a liability compared to an over-leveled player (i.e. will the run take longer and/or be more likely to fail)?" If the answer is "yes", you have a non-starter.

[Shougun]

Just sync the defensives to the very same concept that healing and damage potency. I am all for making the high level player work to be of similar output of an at level (who is doing it with less skills).

Also in normal content it really, really, doesn't matter if the high level player was doing slightly better (technically this is already massively true due to ilvl creep). The content is so easy and people play so brain dead that unless we are adding other changes, it's like a big whoop lol. One button ice mage doesn't even matter. I can't tell you how many times I hit the end and was like "huh, almost most damage, most healing, and most tanked" everyone was asleep I can see... When your tank becomes your main healer cause the healer keeps dying and only one other dps is paying attention.


Willing to talk about other changes too though (it is why one of my suggestions also gobbled up ilvl creep), just saying in our current situation it really seems like if you hit roughly equal or even slightly under and let features shine, that it's nearly irrelevant.

[Supersnow845]

Benediction and hallowed ground are such edge cases they shouldn’t even factor into the discussion. One is a 3 minute CD and the other is a 7 minute CD and at most they both save the healer 1-2 GCD casts of cure 2 (or if a shield healer they basically save nothing at all on the hallowed ground front)

It doesn’t matter if benediction can’t be scaled because it’s such a minor edge case it’s pointless to act like it will change anything. Nobody is going to call out the sprout level 35 WHM for griefing the party because they don’t have a useless CD like benediction

[Deniza]

The issue is that you can overpull when you have those extra defensives without affecting the group. Without them, the healer will need to throw extra heals your way, which means losing DPS and thus taking longer to clear the dungeon. If a high-level tank keeps its extra defensives when doing a low-level dungeon, you now have noticeably faster runs compared to an at-level tank. Core design requirement failed.

It all depends on how much damage the downscaled tank or other downscaled classes do. Its a scaling thing and right now if you run with a completely fresh group you already have a longer dungeon runtime than if you run with completely lvl 100 BiS people who get synched down. Difference is a few minutes. The aim for SE dungeons is 12-20 minutes. Sometimes a dungeon can take 25 minutes. I'm saying that because the duty support NPC's are scaled around how much damage you make. If you are doing more they are doing less, the dungeon always takes roughtly the same time. which is around 20 minutes with duty support. Does that hurt? For the current reward structure yes. Rarely dungeons take longer with players.

Again, as soon as you introduce the difference, it's no longer valid. Even though it's extremely rare to see a party that's either entirely new or almost entirely new today, that still remains the design focus. The "depending on who is tanking" is key. Every extra GCD heal a Healer needs to throw either because the tank doesn't have additional defensive CD's or the Healer doesn't have additional oGCD heals slows down the run and makes an at-level player a liability.

If we are talking below lvl 50 dungeons, what damage can a WHM in big packs effectively do that is speeding up the dungeon? Holy is a lvl 45 skill, everything below a WHM is basically just single target tagging along, in overpulled packs they are just healing. No damage they do speeds up anything.

I can't emphasize enough that this is the single most important point SE has repeatedly put forward about why you lose abilities when syncing. Ignoring that point is just going to lead to exercises in futility in frustration. The first and most important question to ask yourself when proposing a solution to syncing is "Will this naturally make an at-level player a liability compared to an over-leveled player (i.e. will the run take longer and/or be more likely to fail)?" If the answer is "yes", you have a non-starter.

And as many people mentioned already other games perfectly showed that it is possible without new players being a liability. In some games new players do even more damage than synced down players, which from what I gathered few would care if they where able to hit their abilities because damage in low level dungeons is not a problem ever.

Having said all that, Balancing shouldn't be our concern to begin with unless something is unbalanced. The devs know the numbers better than we do. In the offchance they are going to think about implementing this change they would be doing the balancing with their data not based around our speculations what could go wrong.
And as its just a numbers game, it all comes down to: Do they wanna put in the work or not. Because it definitely is possible.

[Exmo]

It sounds like a total headache. Having to deal with a level 50 rotation for a few minutes once in a while isn't such a bad thing. I'd rather they focus on making rotations in high level enjoyable to play rather than hamstringing them to accommodate low level content.

[Deniza]

It sounds like a total headache. Having to deal with a level 50 rotation for a few minutes once in a while isn't such a bad thing. I'd rather they focus on making rotations in high level enjoyable to play rather than hamstringing them to accommodate low level content.

Why not both?
Its not a headache to do the rotation, its annoying for most jobs because they make no sense on that level and below even worse. And on top of that I just don't wanna deal with low level content due to the rotation changing.

I do agree tho that they should definitely work the rotations being more fun, not just at high level but on all levels. It should feel like you get additionals every time you get something. Not as it currently is where you get a complete change to your core rotation if you had any to begin with and not just 121212 rotation like some jobs have in the beginning.

[ovIm]

Why not both?
Its not a headache to do the rotation, its annoying for most jobs because they make no sense on that level and below even worse. And on top of that I just don't wanna deal with low level content due to the rotation changing.

I do agree tho that they should definitely work the rotations being more fun, not just at high level but on all levels. It should feel like you get additionals every time you get something. Not as it currently is where you get a complete change to your core rotation if you had any to begin with and not just 121212 rotation like some jobs have in the beginning.

To add to this, I would assume 90% of the playable instanced content in this game is below max level. I think that alone makes it absolutely worth to make sure your classes feel good to play in every level bracket, especially since the game encourages you to sync down multiple times per day via the duty roulette feature. Classes are the lens through which we interact with a lot of the combat gameplay, after all. And making fun classes to play does not automatically exclude work being done on the max level rotation.

[UkcsAlias]

Just sync the defensives to the very same concept that healing and damage potency. I am all for making the high level player work to be of similar output of an at level (who is doing it with less skills).

I hate satasha as it is. No need to demand me to now press even more buttons in an otherwise still extremely boring dungeon. Now i can just watch some youtube on the side, while our tank is slowly pulling a few enemies.

ARR being that outdated will always face this issue. And i already reached the point to just stop caring, you arent going to fix this because once you do, its no longer newbie friendly, which is exactly what you dont want. Even if you get all your abilities except a few like invulns, its still going to be boring. Its intentional to have those dungeons like that.

The problem isnt the lack of buttons, its the lack of mechanics that require attention.