Please let us keep our abilities on sync down

[ovIm]

Btw People forget one important thing, the kit we have now for lv50 as example is not the kit we had in the past, square enix deleted so many skills in the last years, and now we have nothing good and nothing fully suited for the lower content

Thats another important thing, yeah. We used to have somewhere around 20-30 skills at level 50 in ARR, and ever since then, the amount of buttons have always roughly remained the same even though CS3 added ~5 new skills per class on each expansion, as older abilities were pruned.
Of course that leaves classes in a more and more barebones state on lower levels the more expansions release.

[AvoSturmfaust]

ok I will exemple with more dept I was at work timed so forgive me for that haha but we will take Ifrit ex on that who will you pick between a LV 50 from the expension or someone that will be sync down to 50 but with the rotation of a LV 100?


the answer will be the LV 100 because they do way more damage no matter what and it will also kill the boss way faster sadly killing both the experience of new player like imagine a viper sync with LV 50 skill and then see it in the same fight but with the LV 100 rotation who will be better? Even destroy the boss. asking to be able to use all skill at all LV. All dungeon become a joke destroying all balance in the game and even more with new player you could probably see it more into ultimate even more and they are made to challenge you

I get your first point, thats why i said i didnt want to sound rude haha, but to your second point the balance is already destroyed thats why i wouldnt balance be a consideration in this case, i mean look at how fast bosses are dying, doesnt matter of alli raid, dungeons etc etc etc if you get in a lower one, we are already at the point where you cant even see 50% of the shit bosses would do because everything is dying way too fast

[DPZ2]

Assume Square Enix has numbers for maximum damage from each job at each level, as well as numbers for the speed of damage delivery at each instance level, as well as mean-time-to-defeat each mob type at each instance level.

After applying a conversion table, you get your level 100 rotation in Sastasha.

In order to get through Sastasha, your combined DPS with full job bar will be slightly lower than an at-level-with-limited-rotation player.

This is what you will accept?

[Daralii]

Assume Square Enix has numbers for maximum damage from each job at each level, as well as numbers for the speed of damage delivery at each instance level, as well as mean-time-to-defeat each mob type at each instance level.

After applying a conversion table, you get your level 100 rotation in Sastasha.

In order to get through Sastasha, your combined DPS with full job bar will be slightly lower than an at-level-with-limited-rotation player.

This is what you will accept?

Yes, because who the hell cares about being top damage in roulette dungeons from 2013? It's more engaging to use my full rotation than 1->2 until one mob is dead, hitting tab, and repeating for 10-15 minutes.

[Deniza]

Assume Square Enix has numbers for maximum damage from each job at each level, as well as numbers for the speed of damage delivery at each instance level, as well as mean-time-to-defeat each mob type at each instance level.

After applying a conversion table, you get your level 100 rotation in Sastasha.

In order to get through Sastasha, your combined DPS with full job bar will be slightly lower than an at-level-with-limited-rotation player.

This is what you will accept?

If that would be the case yes, Cause I don't care about if I do 15 or 10 dps in sastasha. it is so damn low, the dungeon is so damn fast and you skip every major mechanic already. Yes I absolutely accept it if I am able to press my buttons I have at lvl 100.

[Shougun]

Assume Square Enix has numbers for maximum damage from each job at each level, as well as numbers for the speed of damage delivery at each instance level, as well as mean-time-to-defeat each mob type at each instance level.

After applying a conversion table, you get your level 100 rotation in Sastasha.

In order to get through Sastasha, your combined DPS with full job bar will be slightly lower than an at-level-with-limited-rotation player.

This is what you will accept?

Just like how I'm talking I'm assuming you're not suggesting 'just' these mentioned variables, as I imagine polish will end up with a few more (for either of us when talking lol). If so, honestly that is generally the description of the sync yeah.

Only one that worries me slightly was mean time to defeat, unless you are talking about my stagger system suggestion in which case that might be helpful yeah*. But if you're talking about just curving people down and calling it done, I think your first two items are the bigger tickets and probably leave mean time out.

* Stagger system was doing more than just dampening high levels, it would be addressing our ilvling content and creating rewarding gameplay systems for that extra damage. For the intention of keeping time to reward similar but increasing quality time in those contents (so that epic god boss that a player is doing for MSQ still feels cool, but high levels players are not pulling out all their chocobo feathers due to boredom and lack of time value).

Yes I expect a level 10 to have some spells that are technically weaker than the level 100 in unmodified situations be stronger than the level 100 due to the dampening (because those higher level jobs will have other things going on, like ogcds)

I expect the full bar to probably be slightly less damage, though the features may occasionally shine. Since we won't spend time trying to figure out if it's fair that a job can raise, heal, or group speed (healing potency will be dampened like damage, but the feature of it existing- no). We're just focused on algorithmically dampening damage in a way that encourages the player to use their kit in a similar way (so you don't get synced down and suddenly the best choice is to only use the first skill in your combo sequence).

The point to me is definitely not to allow a full kit so the boss is dying even faster, I would argue that would be worse.. but it is to maintain an interesting kit.

[brinn12]

I would 100% support this idea, but it's never going to happen. The developers didn't even bother with giving healers or DRG AoE abilities before level 40, even though some jobs get them before level 20. Asking for a full kit is just unreasonable.

They don't give much attention to low level content, and have only been changing it to accomodate the game for solo players. 10 years later, and job crystals are still not mandatory for level cap content...

[CuteBucket]

It's already been pointed out why letting us use our full max level kit at lower levels creates problems. But I agree that syncing down feels terrible for the most part. I think, best bet, is that there's a compromise here.

My go-to solution that I've seen shared by others before is this: All jobs should have a workable, comfortable, ideally fun and functional base kit by level 50. That means that the rotation, if the job has one, should feel like it has all of the structure in place, with further levels building upon it. It also needs movement, like a gap closer or opener, and a gauge with a way to spend that gauge. Some jobs have all this at 50, but most notably don't, and it takes until lvl 60 or 70 to even feel like the class is in a basic, playable state. I think this does a disservice to sprouts and veterans alike--it doesn't teach sprouts about their job skills early in the game well at all, and veterans don't want to sync down and be stuck with a job that has 1/4th of the buttons to press.

For some examples off the top of my head: BRD should have all songs by 50, it's very clunky not to have all three. Samurai should have Kenki and their movement buttons at 50. DRG should have its gauge and slightly longer rotation by 50. BLM should have Ley Lines. All tanks should have a gap closer by 50 and a basic burst/gauge spender. All healers should... I don't know, I don't play healers, I'm sure healers could tell you what they need to feel like they have a workable kit though. I gravitate toward certain jobs like DNC and SMN when I know there's a good chance of me ending up in lower end content, because I feel like those classes are at least mostly playable at 50, and most of my friends do the same if given the chance, because we all HATE getting stuck in one of the Crystal Tower raids with a job that feels like hot garbage to play for the next mind-numbing 15-20 minutes.

Redesigning jobs to feel like a solid base kit at 50 and then getting one new major ability button per roughly the next 10 levels would feel much, much better imo, while avoiding the issues with max level damage potentcies leaving sprouts in the dust.

[Daralii]

For some examples off the top of my head: BRD should have all songs by 50, it's very clunky not to have all three. Samurai should have Kenki and their movement buttons at 50. DRG should have its gauge and slightly longer rotation by 50. BLM should have Ley Lines. All tanks should have a gap closer by 50 and a basic burst/gauge spender. All healers should... I don't know, I don't play healers, I'm sure healers could tell you what they need to feel like they have a workable kit though. I gravitate toward certain jobs like DNC and SMN when I know there's a good chance of me ending up in lower end content, because I feel like those classes are at least mostly playable at 50, and most of my friends do the same if given the chance, because we all HATE getting stuck in one of the Crystal Tower raids with a job that feels like hot garbage to play for the next mind-numbing 15-20 minutes.

I don't play healers much, but they should at least have their gauges and damaging spenders, especially WHM since lilies currently offer nothing but a single target GCD heal until 74(22 levels after the gauge is unlocked). It's hard to say beyond that because they all have what must be at least a bar and a half of oGCD heals, shields, mitigation, buffs, and resource generation with varying degrees of redundancy.

[Striker44]

While I see some issues on DPS skills, the bigger ones I see are on tanks and healers. Say an at-level tank only has Rampart for 20% reduction, while an over-leveled tank also has its 40% reduction. How do you deal with that? If you don't make any adjustments, then it inevitably becomes a liability having the at-level tank, which is exactly the primary goal SE is trying to avoid. If you do adjust it so that the over-leveled tank has to use both of its abilities to achieve the 20% reduction, then what was the point even keeping them both? And that's not even factoring the even higher-leveled tanks that will have their full immunity...

Same with healers. What do you with a WHM that has Benediction vs. one that doesn't? You can't "adjust the potency" of a 100% heal. Either you have it or you don't.

Remember, one of SE's biggest objectives with their system is to ensure that lower-level players (or rather *at* level players) don't get harassed because they're a liability compared to having a higher-level player. Until you can ensure any "sync" system you propose doesn't directly or indirectly encourage this, it's a non-starter.