Ban premade parties in Frontline please

[Exmo]

Because the social aspect of the game is gone?

I've introduced so many people to PvP by just saying "hey lets go do our daily Frontline roulette." And I'll run them through the ropes in the Wovles Den first, we'll giggle about seducing each other with Dancer LB in a duel, then go on trying to work together and fight some people.

But because we're part of the terrible premade boogieman, you'd rather have the four of us queue up separately, play with four different ideas about what's happening, rather than hanging out. Just because you don't want to interact with other people, either socially or through gameplay, doesn't mean the rest of us have to suffer.

How would matching premades against other premades make the game less social? You talk about no longer being able to group with other players but... what you're quoting would have no impact on that. Did you misread my post?

[Cidel]

Just to clarify before I weigh-in, are we arguing for premades to only be matched against just other premades in some sort of separate queue that would necessitate 8v8v8 maps again?

Or is the argument for premades being shuffled in the 72-mans in such a way that no 2 premades can ever be on the same team so long as one or more teams don't have one?

[Exmo]

Just to clarify before I weigh-in, are we arguing for premades to only be matched against just other premades in some sort of separate queue that would necessitate 8v8v8 maps again?

Or is the argument for premades being shuffled in the 72-mans in such a way that no 2 premades can ever be on the same team so long as one or more teams don't have one?

All options are on the table. This is just a discussion, we're not finalizing a plan that we're in a position to implement, so if you have an idea that would address the problem please feel free to share it

Some people here advocate for an 8v8v8 game mode.

I'd prefer a seperated queue to the ~72 player mode that could operate as follows:

There's typically two FL instances outside of the graveyard shift with a wait time of ~7 minutes. A third instance could be added exclusively for non-solo players. As is presently the case, you don't necessarily need 72 players for the match to start, so the prerequisite to pop the duty could be amended downward based on numbers SE has access to.

When demand for FL dips such as during the graveyard shift, roll solo players and premades together. Given current trends, I don't think we need to discuss what to do if there just isn't ever enough numbers for split instances even during daylight hours, but an algorithm that sentries queue counts over the past 30 minutes should be sufficient to manage the threshold.

For this the group size might be something like 12v12v12 at minimum at the beginning of a match, with more premade groups joining in the early minutes to bring it closer to 24v24v24.

I would not be a fan of simply distributing premades across teams of solo players, because that does not necessarily address the problem that certain premades create, and still results in solo players having to suffer through playing with or against those premades.

[Cidel]

Okay, here's the problem- Nothing short of segregating Light Party FL queues into 8v8v8 is a realistic solution. And even then, as fair as that is, the chances of the PvP devs revoking their decision to eliminate low-man matches are slim to none (at least not until there's a player population/participation problem). For one, because it would be as dead as Rival Wings. There aren't nearly enough people queuing in neatly-even parties at most given times to justify it. Furthermore, would it have to be a new "roulette?" Or would Frontlines roulette have to be solo-queue only?

Secondly, it would still create a dent in regular Frontlines queues (not too significant, I'd wager). If people queuing parties of 2 and 3 had to be put in there, then that's even less for regular Frontlines.

The whole thing is more work than the 1 battle team intern in charge of PvP is probably willing to do. It takes them like over half a year to implement anything other than potency and recast changes. Of course, all this will probably depend more on how the JP crowd feels about Light Parties. Given that they are very willing to be led around by a "commander" each game, this is likely a non-issue for them, so it would be an unnecessary change.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

The only upside to premades is that they let me coast through and half-ass a match because the outcome is unavoidable 3 minutes in.

If premades are going to insist on taking away the agency and contributions of others, than I'm going to do exactly as instructed and relax while they spoon-feed me Ws or Ls.

Are you sure that's not the original reason people wanted to party up together in the first place? Almost sounds like the feeders are the opposite problem of the premades.

[Sunhwapark]

I generally don't care about premades, the people that intentionally feed to "make the match go faster" are far more annoying especially when they are mounting up and walking straight into the enemy base for 10 minutes straight, those guys and people who try to afk in the corner of a map for the entire game too are just infinitely worse than people who want to actually play the game.

[gidsonBrand]

Specifically, recognize this is a team mode, not a light party mode, and do everything they can to help their team win. This should be obvious, but many premades take a different approach. As such, they're violating the spirit of the mode in the same way AFKers are.

It's also not a ranked mode or a savage tier. Yall are arguing that premades ruin the game for people playing for fun, while also not being good enough to contribute to a win? Or throwing for their own stats?

Let's get this straight. "Premades" are not a single hive mind. They are different groups of different people, with different skill levels, goals, ideas, and mindsets. Lumping them all in under the guise of them being elitist padders who want to ruin the fun of solo queue players -- that's the kind of take that makes the forums look crazy.

Nobody is violating the spirit of the Multiplayer Online RPG by playing a casual PvP mode with their friends.

[gidsonBrand]

How would matching premades against other premades make the game less social? You talk about no longer being able to group with other players but... what you're quoting would have no impact on that. Did you misread my post?

Longer queue times, maybe not even being able to queue. Believe it or not, premade groups are not all 4-man sweat stacks that grind the game 24/7. There aren't enough to pop games all the time like normal queue Frontlines.

So yeah, not being able to play the game with my friends would make for a pretty anti-social experience.

[Exmo]

It's also not a ranked mode or a savage tier. Yall are arguing that premades ruin the game for people playing for fun, while also not being good enough to contribute to a win? Or throwing for their own stats?

Let's get this straight. "Premades" are not a single hive mind. They are different groups of different people, with different skill levels, goals, ideas, and mindsets. Lumping them all in under the guise of them being elitist padders who want to ruin the fun of solo queue players -- that's the kind of take that makes the forums look crazy.

Nobody is violating the spirit of the Multiplayer Online RPG by playing a casual PvP mode with their friends.

There's no easy programmatic way to distinguish "normal" premades from "toxic" premades, so you'd have to take a broader approach to handling the latter. One way is by compartmentalizing premades to their own matchmaking queue. I think there would be plenty of players to fill such groups, yeah it may mean you have to queue for a little longer than 2 minutes but it would make the mode overall more fair. Another approach would be to strip away some of the tools that toxic premades use - spamming waymarks, spamming sound effects, marking an ally as the leader.

What I would not find acceptable from the devs (but accusing you of this btw) is pretending toxic premades are just not a problem, or throwing one's hands up and saying nothing can be done about them without even trying.

[Stasya]

Longer queue times, maybe not even being able to queue. Believe it or not, premade groups are not all 4-man sweat stacks that grind the game 24/7. There aren't enough to pop games all the time like normal queue Frontlines.

So yeah, not being able to play the game with my friends would make for a pretty anti-social experience.

Have you tried to play any other pvp games before saying this nonsense? Where matchmaking tries to make balanced match for everyone and not your no lifer "friends" farming pve achievements in frontline? (while griefing experience for EVERYONE else)

If square copies any party based mm they will make so if you q for a while and not get into match (because no party to match against you) you get priority queue. What i am saying is literally Dota 2 normal queue matchmaking .......

Stop abusing matchmaking. Stop trolling with "muh but my friends". You people stack 2-3 groups on ONE team because you know matchmaking suck. You are truly unskilled people in frontlines, unable to come up with anything but drk suck in throw aoes with pld walking around griefing with invuln. Square even buffed you with faster pacing battle high stacking (moronic decision).

To add. Idk who is worse in ff14 pvp, people like you or 5Head people who abuse(d) crystal ranked for trade wins. Atleast those people grief 8 people per match, you greif like what 40+?