Ban premade parties in Frontline please

[Chasingstars]

None of this changes anything about how premades operate. DRK is mainly used for it's draw in, not damage, so changes to potency affect nothing here. RPR's LB is every 60 seconds which is still incredibly frequent. Minor damage nerfs to ranged jobs matter little when everyone attacks in coordination.

Yes it does. I've played 80 matches of frontlines between this week and last week. I barely see the 6.1 to 7.0 DRK strat used, and when it is with the callouts, it doesn't really work. We are back to the 6.0 era where it is the ranged meta. The premade meta has shifted.

If you are playing melee now in general, you need to be more mindful of ranged jobs. Like White Mage with its MoN not only polymorphs you now, but it also drains you of 2500 MP or 1 self-heal, and the only upside is now its purifiable but that might not be an upside.

[Exmo]

Yes it does. I've played 80 matches of frontlines between this week and last week. I barely see the 6.1 to 7.0 DRK strat used, and when it is with the callouts, it doesn't really work. We are back to the 6.0 era where it is the ranged meta. The premade meta has shifted.

If you are playing melee now in general, you need to be more mindful of ranged jobs. Like White Mage with its MoN not only polymorphs you now, but it also drains you of 2500 MP or 1 self-heal, and the only upside is now its purifiable but that might not be an upside.

Different DCs have different experiences then. I was against a premade lead by a DRK literally yesterday. So the old meta is still present here. Regardless of the composition, the fundamental problem is that premades can match against solo players. Any solution that didn't address that heart of the matter is just pushing the same problem around the table.

[Mawlzy]

Different DCs have different experiences then. I was against a premade lead by a DRK literally yesterday. So the old meta is still present here. Regardless of the composition, the fundamental problem is that premades can match against solo players. Any solution that didn't address that heart of the matter is just pushing the same problem around the table.

So this was Shatter? I think premades are still an issue on that map, but as Archeron notes, that is more a result of an effective shot-caller than the power of a DRK+ premade. (It seems DNC is the critical component of the burst now.) One of the reasons Shatter is so ghastly is that it is so predictable with a very limited number of spawn patterns. Simply putting your team in the right place is 80% of the battle. Sure the diving tricks and the more coordinated burst a premade can produce have an impact too, but if one team has a commander who knows the solution to this p.o.s. map and half the team follows them, it's a massive advantage.

The net result on Aether is that, outside of Shatter, premades are not a major issue. I imagine that will change assuming the usual suspects keep playing the mode and perfecting their strats. Look towards the rising sun for how that might develop.

[Exmo]

So this was Shatter? I think premades are still an issue on that map, but as Archeron notes, that is more a result of an effective shot-caller than the power of a DRK+ premade. (It seems DNC is the critical component of the burst now.) One of the reasons Shatter is so ghastly is that it is so predictable with a very limited number of spawn patterns. Simply putting your team in the right place is 80% of the battle. Sure the diving tricks and the more coordinated burst a premade can produce have an impact too, but if one team has a commander who knows the solution to this p.o.s. map and half the team follows them, it's a massive advantage.

The net result on Aether is that, outside of Shatter, premades are not a major issue. I imagine that will change assuming the usual suspects keep playing the mode and perfecting their strats. Look towards the rising sun for how that might develop.

As I've said a few times, the problem is the nature of premades give teams a huge advantage. It has little to do with DRK or team composition. If job abilities changed, the team composition would change, but the premade would still dominate.

I've played tons of games with shot callers who are not obviously in a premade. Having someone call shots and coordinate is not itself a problem. The problem is premades, no question about it. Do not match premades with solo players and the problem would go away.

As said before, the problem is most evident on Shatter but it's also there on the nadaam.

[Mawlzy]

As I've said a few times, the problem is the nature of premades give teams a huge advantage. It has little to do with DRK or team composition. If job abilities changed, the team composition would change, but the premade would still dominate.

I've played tons of games with shot callers who are not obviously in a premade. Having someone call shots and coordinate is not itself a problem. The problem is premades, no question about it. Do not match premades with solo players and the problem would go away.

As said before, the problem is most evident on Shatter but it's also there on the nadaam.

I agree with this, but when we discussed the problem last year I don't think we ever found a solution to how a premade-only queue would ever pop. Tricks like allowing a solo-only queue and a first-available queue (that allowed premades) just don't seem like the sort of thing SE would contemplate. My preferred solution of a three-tier matchmaking system is looking increasingly remote as player numbers decline.

This is largely a consequence of putting 72 players on the field. I'd love to see team size reduced.

Incidentally, you mention your dislike for moving waymarkers. Ironically, they tend to make premades opposing them more effective because it makes the death ball denser and thus easier to wipe out. When used by a weak shotcaller they can be a complete disaster.

[Mawlzy]

Yes it does. I've played 80 matches of frontlines between this week and last week. I barely see the 6.1 to 7.0 DRK strat used, and when it is with the callouts, it doesn't really work. We are back to the 6.0 era where it is the ranged meta. The premade meta has shifted.

If you are playing melee now in general, you need to be more mindful of ranged jobs. Like White Mage with its MoN not only polymorphs you now, but it also drains you of 2500 MP or 1 self-heal, and the only upside is now its purifiable but that might not be an upside.

This is very much my experience on Aether. The main problem I see is tank/melee feel crap to play and are mostly ineffective (other than SAM). So we've gone from a premade problem to the problem that half the jobs are really not worth playing.

[Wilford111]

This is very much my experience on Aether. The main problem I see is tank/melee feel crap to play and are mostly ineffective (other than SAM). So we've gone from a premade problem to the problem that half the jobs are really not worth playing.

Well guess what, if jobs weren't used and abused so much by premades, maybe they wouldn't be nerfed so hard they aren't worth using solo anymore.