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  1. #1
    Player
    Xrono_Amber's Avatar
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    Jan 2025
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    Gridania
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    35
    Character
    Xrono Amber
    World
    Phoenix
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    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    All that said, I do think there's an element of truth in it not 'feeling right' if the Scions died in, say, Dawntrail, even if Dawntrail's meaningful bodycount was actually quite high. Because Dawntrail's deaths were meaningful; they affect the people and world around them. Gulool Ja Ja doesn't die for raw shock value, his death fundamentally changes the character relationships between Zoraal Ja, Wuk Lamat, Koana, and the city of Tuliyollal. In that context, one of the Scions dying would feel wrong, not because the space around them isn't dangerous, but because this isn't their story. Their death wouldn't affect anyone around them, because most of this continent doesn't know or care what a Thancred is; his death would be a meaningless speedbump, when he deserves more.
    Nah, my reasoning is way more simpler. Endwalker has raised the stakes to extraordinary levels. And during the events of a burning skies, people turning into beasts from the despair and us traveling to the edge of the Universe to resolve said crisis, not a single Scion died. So my conclusion is simple, if this failed to killed at least some of them, nothing should be able to do so in the future. Because no threat can compete with Endsinger.

    They had an opportunity to kill Thancred in Shadowbrigners. They didn't. They had an opportunity to kill Y'shtola in Heavensward and Shadowbringers. They didn't. They had opportunity to kill at least some Scions in Endwalker. They didn't. And when they killed Zenos, they had to go out of their way to say "no, he'll not return, he died for good". And I still wouldn't be surprised if he would return in some shape or form. They have written themselves into a sort of trap. Now, even if they want to kill someone, it will be a cheap death, no matter how they describe it.

    And unnamed characters or characters with a name who are introduced to us? Yeah, they can and will die on a whim. During the first assault of Tuliyollal, if I'm not mistaken, only one old lady with the name died. I can't recall where we interacted with her, but she's basically not much different from an unnamed character. During the massacre in Solution Nine, the only meaningful death is Otis.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
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    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Xrono_Amber View Post
    And unnamed characters or characters with a name who are introduced to us? Yeah, they can and will die on a whim. During the first assault of Tuliyollal, if I'm not mistaken, only one old lady with the name died. I can't recall where we interacted with her, but she's basically not much different from an unnamed character. During the massacre in Solution Nine, the only meaningful death is Otis.
    Specifically, the death count in Dawntrail that I built up at the time:
    -Sareel Ja (didn't turn out dead but we understandably thought so at the time)
    -That elderly woman you mentioned (I know she had a name, but I don't remember it)
    -Gulool Ja Ja
    -Namikka
    -Otis
    -Zoraal Ja
    -Robor
    -Alayla
    -Cahciua
    -Sphene

    You could understandably make some arguments around the Living Memory ones, but I'd argue that they did all have, for narrative purposes, on-screen 'deaths'. (I'm only counting Namikka and Otis once, though, I don't abide double-dipping.) That's actually a pretty hefty list as far as this game goes; again, the only one that can potentially beat it is Heavensward, which actually requires you get even more lenient on 'named characters' to get there; my personal definition is 'has a name and some level of on-screen defined personality', and most of the Heaven's Ward themselves don't even have the latter.

    As for the Scions: while I had a thing here explaining that I genuinely don't think any Scion that survived ARR will ever die... honestly, the reality is something you got close to, but didn't quite say.

    They don't want to kill the Scions; ergo, they don't have to. Everything else we're saying is just dancing around this point. Yes, they 'had the opportunity' to kill a few in Endwalker: they didn't, because they didn't want to. I can talk all I want about why Dawntrail's the wrong time to kill a Scion and that G'raha's an extremely safe kill if they ever want to... but they don't want to.

    I'm completely fine with that, provided they don't try to milk death scares for tension, and thankfully they've grown out of that since Shadowbringers. Endwalker found some juice in a couple 'how are we gonna save them' sequences, which I personally count differently, but even that can't be a common go-to.
    (2)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 01-19-2025 at 09:21 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Dikatis's Avatar
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    Jan 2022
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    Character
    Lleu Macnia
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    -That elderly woman you mentioned (I know she had a name, but I don't remember it)
    Peschiva. I kind of wish that Wuk Lamat had found her body but had no time to mourn her during the MSQ because of how many people she had to tend to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    G'raha's an extremely safe kill if they ever want to... but they don't want to.
    This I disagree with. G'raha's whole thing at this point is living on and helping others live on after living through two apocalypses and being burdened by the weight of duty for several centuries. He's an old man in a young body with a second lease on life and it'd be frankly insulting to suddenly kill him for shock value. He may not be "necessary" for the current plot, but killing him now would spit on his arc in Shadowbringers. Besides, if we're doing Meracydia in a future expansion, his Allag expertise is second-to-none and he'd be pretty much the perfect companion for it.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Hazama999's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
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    639
    Character
    Momoida Jojoida
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    I don't really see them killing off even one of the Scions in DT, heck maybe not ever. Why? Dunno. A hunch? Momentum, maybe? I couldn't really say. I've grown rather apathetic to their continued presence. However the Scions leave the limelight, be it through death, retirement, or whatever else pulls them away, I don't really care.

    I would be more interested in a new cast with new character arcs.
    (2)


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  5. #5
    Player
    Veritas-Ancora's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Gridania
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    Character
    Mother Vain
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    Gilgamesh
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    Reaper Lv 100
    There's a lot of characters who can't die.

    Krile, for example, is in charge of the Eureka exploratory missions.

    If you killed her, she would have to be rewritten in the existing story. They won't do that.

    Alphinaud and Alisaie also can't die. They ran the Binding Coils of Bahamut content.

    When you start taking apart what characters have vital roles in additional content, you start to see who can't die.
    (0)
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  6. #6
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
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    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora View Post
    There's a lot of characters who can't die.

    Krile, for example, is in charge of the Eureka exploratory missions.

    If you killed her, she would have to be rewritten in the existing story. They won't do that.

    Alphinaud and Alisaie also can't die. They ran the Binding Coils of Bahamut content.

    When you start taking apart what characters have vital roles in additional content, you start to see who can't die.
    They're very happy to time capsule that stuff, honestly; they have been ever since basically 2.55, when Culinarian's storyline suddenly got really awkward. 'This character died in the MSQ but still turns up for stories' is definitely more extreme than any example we've got, but they've definitely had similar weirdness. I think the most exceptional is actually Arenvald turning up in the Summoner level 80 quest.

    Again, I don't think those characters will die, because they're fundamentally pretty big parts of the game and the way they write stories, and also the developers just don't really want to kill them anyway. But I'm not sure this is the evidence you think it is.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Gullis's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    Character
    Gullis Hil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    They're very happy to time capsule that stuff, honestly; they have been ever since basically 2.55, when Culinarian's storyline suddenly got really awkward. 'This character died in the MSQ but still turns up for stories' is definitely more extreme than any example we've got, but they've definitely had similar weirdness. I think the most exceptional is actually Arenvald turning up in the Summoner level 80 quest.

    Again, I don't think those characters will die, because they're fundamentally pretty big parts of the game and the way they write stories, and also the developers just don't really want to kill them anyway. But I'm not sure this is the evidence you think it is.
    There is also Eden where Thancred and Urianger magically reappear in the 1st. I did that questøune during EW, and it was funny to say the least.
    (2)

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