Midcore is NOT a Difficulty setting - It's an Investment!

[Shougun]

60 attempts later of fighting and dying to the same boss with nothing to show for it is not fun.

I've not found that kind of combat content interesting solely due to that. I used to have a static in like FFXI or early WoW, I can see this type of content being fun in that setting- but outside of it, the whole experience is terrible (PUG / DF when DF isn't ready for it). Wait to party, get someone lying about their ability, or worse a drama queen / king on top of it, kick them, wait for party, Steve wont learn their content specific role, Onebuttonbob is below parse, waste time both actively and passively (using food, potions, etc), have nothing to show for it, try again later, win, don't get the item you want / need, go again. Consume a lot of time that you had to carve out from things that could be more interesting. Slot a schedule in that restricts your 'real' life. Just, *gag* lol

[Ardeth]

I've not found that kind of combat content interesting solely due to that. I used to have a static in like FFXI or early WoW, I can see this type of content being fun in that setting- but outside of it, the whole experience is terrible (PUG / DF when DF isn't ready for it). Wait to party, get someone lying about their ability, or worse a drama queen / king on top of it, kick them, wait for party, Steve wont learn their content specific role, Onebuttonbob is below parse, waste time both actively and passively (using food, potions, etc), have nothing to show for it, try again later, win, don't get the item you want / need, go again. Consume a lot of time that you had to carve out from things that could be more interesting. Slot a schedule in that restricts your 'real' life. Just, *gag* lol

That's where I am at as well, but to a more casual extent. I want content I can jump into and do that is more difficult than the mind-numbing slop we have for casual content. I don't want to make a premade party, and I don't want to waste my time. So the content has to be easy enough to not need that level of coordination, but hard enough to satisfy that itch. And I don't think given what I've seen over these past 11 years that SquareEnix is competent enough to do it. They weren't competent enough to see the issues of DC travel. They weren't competent enough to fix Viera and Hrothgar. And they aren't competent enough to do what I would want. All we will get is more commitment based gatekeeping PF bullshit we've been privy to for years. And I don't do that type of content. Not now, not ever. Unless you can magically make a group of non judgmental people willing to give and take constructive criticism while being able to be joined at random, you will fail to capture that market of players. Just as they have now and why they're hemorrhaging players.

[CaedemSanguis]

So the content has to be easy enough to not need that level of coordination, but hard enough to satisfy that itch

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

[Ardeth]

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

But I'm a casual. When I do content, I like to learn that stuff and not spoil it with a video. Understandably, people don't want to waste their time. So if we need harder solo content, maybe. I'm not sure, but what I can say is that the current system sucks. It not fun, and it leaves me playing the game less and less as time goes on.

[AllenThyl]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it.

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.

Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die.

"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

[Ardeth]

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.



"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

Oh, hey, it's the person I told the other person to ignore. I'm going to do that and not answer any point you made!

[AllenThyl]

Oh, hey, it's the person I told the other person to ignore. I'm going to do that and not answer any point you made!

Where is the difference to before, you don't answer anything anyway. Long boss animations with cast bar are "convoluted mechanics". That's the example you gave for a mechanic that is "too hardcore". Not the alchemy mechanic of p8s (High Concept), or the dark / light towers of p12s p2. No, "long boss animation with cast bar". Your definition for the skill level of "midcore" has even less skilled players than the group usually described as "casual", that is how far off base the whole discussion has drifted. I mean, "hide behind the rock" mechanics aren't completely intuitive for a new player, are they? Does that make them "hardcore", despite it not being an issue in all the normal dungeons where they occur? Yeah, no developer in the world will be able to develop content for "midcore" people, if they only ever describe the very same content that currently qualifies as "casual" with a categorical unwillingness to actually learn anything new.

[CidHeiral]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

[Ardeth]

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do. It's just mixed signaling. If you do it one way and then take it away, why is it still there for other things? If markers are too easy, why do we still have them? Why haven't we moved to cast bars and 1 millisecond of the marker? That's my issue. Pick one and stick to it. I know it's going to be a mechanic fiesta regardless, but can you at least be consistent. If you trained me 100 levels to dodge a marker, don't remove a marker. It's just moronic.

[CidHeiral]

I'm not saying items impossible to do. It's just mixed signaling. If you do it one way and then take it away, why is it still there for other things? If markers are too easy, why do we still have them? Why haven't we moved to cast bars and 1 millisecond of the marker? That's my issue. Pick one and stick to it. I know it's going to be a mechanic fiesta regardless, but can you at least be consistent. If you trained me 100 levels to dodge a marker, don't remove a marker. It's just moronic.

That's like saying "goombas have been walking at me the whole game up to this point, why are they flying at me now?" It's to mix things up. It's part of the challenge. Aren't midcore players saying they want a little more challenge?