Midcore is NOT a Difficulty setting - It's an Investment!

[CaedemSanguis]

So the content has to be easy enough to not need that level of coordination, but hard enough to satisfy that itch

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

[Ardeth]

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

But I'm a casual. When I do content, I like to learn that stuff and not spoil it with a video. Understandably, people don't want to waste their time. So if we need harder solo content, maybe. I'm not sure, but what I can say is that the current system sucks. It not fun, and it leaves me playing the game less and less as time goes on.

[AllenThyl]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it.

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.

Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die.

"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

[Ardeth]

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.



"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

Oh, hey, it's the person I told the other person to ignore. I'm going to do that and not answer any point you made!

[AllenThyl]

Oh, hey, it's the person I told the other person to ignore. I'm going to do that and not answer any point you made!

Where is the difference to before, you don't answer anything anyway. Long boss animations with cast bar are "convoluted mechanics". That's the example you gave for a mechanic that is "too hardcore". Not the alchemy mechanic of p8s (High Concept), or the dark / light towers of p12s p2. No, "long boss animation with cast bar". Your definition for the skill level of "midcore" has even less skilled players than the group usually described as "casual", that is how far off base the whole discussion has drifted. I mean, "hide behind the rock" mechanics aren't completely intuitive for a new player, are they? Does that make them "hardcore", despite it not being an issue in all the normal dungeons where they occur? Yeah, no developer in the world will be able to develop content for "midcore" people, if they only ever describe the very same content that currently qualifies as "casual" with a categorical unwillingness to actually learn anything new.

[CidHeiral]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

[Ardeth]

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do. It's just mixed signaling. If you do it one way and then take it away, why is it still there for other things? If markers are too easy, why do we still have them? Why haven't we moved to cast bars and 1 millisecond of the marker? That's my issue. Pick one and stick to it. I know it's going to be a mechanic fiesta regardless, but can you at least be consistent. If you trained me 100 levels to dodge a marker, don't remove a marker. It's just moronic.

[CidHeiral]

I'm not saying items impossible to do. It's just mixed signaling. If you do it one way and then take it away, why is it still there for other things? If markers are too easy, why do we still have them? Why haven't we moved to cast bars and 1 millisecond of the marker? That's my issue. Pick one and stick to it. I know it's going to be a mechanic fiesta regardless, but can you at least be consistent. If you trained me 100 levels to dodge a marker, don't remove a marker. It's just moronic.

That's like saying "goombas have been walking at me the whole game up to this point, why are they flying at me now?" It's to mix things up. It's part of the challenge. Aren't midcore players saying they want a little more challenge?

[Shougun]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

But I'm a casual. When I do content, I like to learn that stuff and not spoil it with a video. Understandably, people don't want to waste their time. So if we need harder solo content, maybe. I'm not sure, but what I can say is that the current system sucks. It not fun, and it leaves me playing the game less and less as time goes on.

FFXIV does fairly well telegraphing info compared to other MMOs, but I do think we can improve that further.

For example abilities that can't be dodges (but the markers are there for your info) are a different color / visual style. This allows you to know that you could NOT have dodged it at the point of seeing it, stop trying that- this skill requires anticipation.. or lore interpretation it requires you to utilize your echo. They have markers for most concepts (like "thats going to do alotta damage"), just some bosses don't have them (due to when they were made) - assign someone to make those consistent (allow us to help by allowing a report missing telegraph UI).

Some other textures / effects might be interesting. Like one that indicates a sequence / series of actions (not talking #s like the boss target dash mechanics, just means that 'this ground marker has more to it than just this, like eruption on ifrit'), or the speed at which they will occur.


I might suggest that, if they've done it via a way that can use this, the functions for bosses automatically develop this info. "damage player(2, 3, 4, 10, skill effect), etc etc" and the other UI related functions just sees "triggers 8 effects within 2 seconds" means give it a fast animation speed, undodge-able coloring, with a sequence texture. The point of mentioning that, is because I think when content is first new, particularly, hardcore focused content... don't give all that info (also don't put it into machine memory, only server side). This way those players, who like that fresh learning experience, will get it, and once the guides are being made the game just follows suit. If you don't want the info after that, just remove your echo buff .



I am not sure how exactly I'd like to categorize content types, but I am unsatisfied with just one words (casual, mid, hard). I would probably mix in required player, skill requirement and #, and then increments of expected substantive progress.


So for example 8 party group, 4 veteran, 1 hour. Using this as a goal of design but also a metric to look at if I missed the mark. This tells me I want 8 players, 4 of which need to be veteran, and on average players will experience substantive dopamine hits every hour. So like ultimate might be 8, 8 masters, 12-36 hours. My personal preference is probably set at dynamic scaling of 1 to X, 1 to 1/3 * X, veteran, 15 minutes to 1 hour. Where typically the content is either or "also" scaling to size of group, and only 1/3 really have to know whats up (playing 'well', but no memorization required).