Midcore is NOT a Difficulty setting - It's an Investment!

[MoofiaBossVal]

I just want more engaging content, but without the frustration of raiding where it feels like a second job pugging in party finder or showing up to a scheduled static time only to die over and over and over on one boss. So Extremes and savages and criterions do nothing for me. I want to kill (or fail a CE) and just move on to the next thing. I liked Eureka and the Critical Engagements and Castrum in Bozja, and I liked having to anticipate what Dawntrail dungeon bosses will do next but they are still comprehensible and beatable in 1 or 2 attempts unlike Criterion dungeons which you have to prog like a raid. I guess deep dungeon also exists, but I do not like the cramped corridors and a 4 man party isn't as cool. Zones with lots of players and lots of harder (but not frustratingly hard) bosses in them is more fun. I also liked the progression, not just in the relics but in reaching a new zone, though Bozja was disappointing in that regard in that there were inly two zones and the second one also looked like a grey wasteland.

Chaotic is neat in that you can just buy auction house gear and port straight onto a platform, is grandiose with 24 players and you still feel like you are important when phase 2 splits everyone into smaller groups, but it just takes one player making one mistake to wipe the raid, and 60 attempts later of fighting and dying to the same boss with nothing to show for it is not fun.

[Shougun]

60 attempts later of fighting and dying to the same boss with nothing to show for it is not fun.

I've not found that kind of combat content interesting solely due to that. I used to have a static in like FFXI or early WoW, I can see this type of content being fun in that setting- but outside of it, the whole experience is terrible (PUG / DF when DF isn't ready for it). Wait to party, get someone lying about their ability, or worse a drama queen / king on top of it, kick them, wait for party, Steve wont learn their content specific role, Onebuttonbob is below parse, waste time both actively and passively (using food, potions, etc), have nothing to show for it, try again later, win, don't get the item you want / need, go again. Consume a lot of time that you had to carve out from things that could be more interesting. Slot a schedule in that restricts your 'real' life. Just, *gag* lol

[Ardeth]

I've not found that kind of combat content interesting solely due to that. I used to have a static in like FFXI or early WoW, I can see this type of content being fun in that setting- but outside of it, the whole experience is terrible (PUG / DF when DF isn't ready for it). Wait to party, get someone lying about their ability, or worse a drama queen / king on top of it, kick them, wait for party, Steve wont learn their content specific role, Onebuttonbob is below parse, waste time both actively and passively (using food, potions, etc), have nothing to show for it, try again later, win, don't get the item you want / need, go again. Consume a lot of time that you had to carve out from things that could be more interesting. Slot a schedule in that restricts your 'real' life. Just, *gag* lol

That's where I am at as well, but to a more casual extent. I want content I can jump into and do that is more difficult than the mind-numbing slop we have for casual content. I don't want to make a premade party, and I don't want to waste my time. So the content has to be easy enough to not need that level of coordination, but hard enough to satisfy that itch. And I don't think given what I've seen over these past 11 years that SquareEnix is competent enough to do it. They weren't competent enough to see the issues of DC travel. They weren't competent enough to fix Viera and Hrothgar. And they aren't competent enough to do what I would want. All we will get is more commitment based gatekeeping PF bullshit we've been privy to for years. And I don't do that type of content. Not now, not ever. Unless you can magically make a group of non judgmental people willing to give and take constructive criticism while being able to be joined at random, you will fail to capture that market of players. Just as they have now and why they're hemorrhaging players.

[CaedemSanguis]

So the content has to be easy enough to not need that level of coordination, but hard enough to satisfy that itch

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

[Ardeth]

you see, this problem is about FF14 netcode/pve structure, not about content, FF14 difficulty is "on/off" there is no middleground, unless they do mechanics that is execution heavy rather than dance, we'll have to wait for 7.2 + 7.3 to see if they can do it

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

But I'm a casual. When I do content, I like to learn that stuff and not spoil it with a video. Understandably, people don't want to waste their time. So if we need harder solo content, maybe. I'm not sure, but what I can say is that the current system sucks. It not fun, and it leaves me playing the game less and less as time goes on.

[AllenThyl]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it.

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.

Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die.

"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

[Ardeth]

If a long winded telegraph from the boss including a castbar is "too convoluted", then there is nothing left for mechanics but "don't stand in the orange". And the "split second telegraphs" aren't intended to be dodged, they are there to show where the unsafe spot is post-facto. If content can be cleared by someone equivalent to "no knowledge" despite being at endgame content, it simply has no difficulty. Might as well watch the game on youtube at that point.



"I didn't pay attention to the fight and died" sounds like a reasonable and good thing for a combat encounter in an action combat MMORPG. The fact that paying attention to a game while playing said game is constructed as some kind of herculean feat instead of being the absolute basic requirement is certainly a take. Again, might as well watch the game on youtube, that way you can watch something more interesting on the 2nd monitor, without impacting the experience of other people like many currently are doing, especially in Alliance Raids.

Oh, hey, it's the person I told the other person to ignore. I'm going to do that and not answer any point you made!

[CidHeiral]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

[Ardeth]

I don't mean to sound rude but how is it not common sense to think "the boss flattened me after raising his fist, I'll look out for his fist raising next time"? If someone can't piece together something that simple it seems like normal mode is exactly where they should be.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do. It's just mixed signaling. If you do it one way and then take it away, why is it still there for other things? If markers are too easy, why do we still have them? Why haven't we moved to cast bars and 1 millisecond of the marker? That's my issue. Pick one and stick to it. I know it's going to be a mechanic fiesta regardless, but can you at least be consistent. If you trained me 100 levels to dodge a marker, don't remove a marker. It's just moronic.

[Shougun]

I just wish their mechanics and structure of mechanics weren't so convaluted. Like the boss raises his right fist and starts casting "big hit," you see the marker, and you dodge it. But then they have the boss lift their fist and have no marker. It still casts "Big hit," but the player doesn't get the same marker structure and dies. Because the marker popped up at the very last second, and they can't dodge it. Now, the simple solution is to focus the boss and watch the cast/boss, but the majority of people aren't going to do that and die. Or the mechanics straight up has no telegraph happens for a minute straight requires you to memorize it and you die to it. I just wish we got more common sense mechanics even if the only solution to making them harder is making them faster.

But I'm a casual. When I do content, I like to learn that stuff and not spoil it with a video. Understandably, people don't want to waste their time. So if we need harder solo content, maybe. I'm not sure, but what I can say is that the current system sucks. It not fun, and it leaves me playing the game less and less as time goes on.

FFXIV does fairly well telegraphing info compared to other MMOs, but I do think we can improve that further.

For example abilities that can't be dodges (but the markers are there for your info) are a different color / visual style. This allows you to know that you could NOT have dodged it at the point of seeing it, stop trying that- this skill requires anticipation.. or lore interpretation it requires you to utilize your echo. They have markers for most concepts (like "thats going to do alotta damage"), just some bosses don't have them (due to when they were made) - assign someone to make those consistent (allow us to help by allowing a report missing telegraph UI).

Some other textures / effects might be interesting. Like one that indicates a sequence / series of actions (not talking #s like the boss target dash mechanics, just means that 'this ground marker has more to it than just this, like eruption on ifrit'), or the speed at which they will occur.


I might suggest that, if they've done it via a way that can use this, the functions for bosses automatically develop this info. "damage player(2, 3, 4, 10, skill effect), etc etc" and the other UI related functions just sees "triggers 8 effects within 2 seconds" means give it a fast animation speed, undodge-able coloring, with a sequence texture. The point of mentioning that, is because I think when content is first new, particularly, hardcore focused content... don't give all that info (also don't put it into machine memory, only server side). This way those players, who like that fresh learning experience, will get it, and once the guides are being made the game just follows suit. If you don't want the info after that, just remove your echo buff .



I am not sure how exactly I'd like to categorize content types, but I am unsatisfied with just one words (casual, mid, hard). I would probably mix in required player, skill requirement and #, and then increments of expected substantive progress.


So for example 8 party group, 4 veteran, 1 hour. Using this as a goal of design but also a metric to look at if I missed the mark. This tells me I want 8 players, 4 of which need to be veteran, and on average players will experience substantive dopamine hits every hour. So like ultimate might be 8, 8 masters, 12-36 hours. My personal preference is probably set at dynamic scaling of 1 to X, 1 to 1/3 * X, veteran, 15 minutes to 1 hour. Where typically the content is either or "also" scaling to size of group, and only 1/3 really have to know whats up (playing 'well', but no memorization required).