How would you improve Dawntrail's writing?

[MediocreIndigo]

I think it's safe to say that a lot of people are disappointed with Dawntrail's writing, myself included. Something I've noticed about how people tend to criticize the expansion on here is that a lot of it seems focused on stating what went wrong. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, as identifying the problem is an important step in criticism, but something that I think would benefit discussion is if we talked more about how the writing could be improved. To try to generate this, I have three questions that I'd like to see other players answer:

1. What would you have done differently with Dawntrail's writing and how would you have done it?

2. What are some suggestions you have for how the MSQ could go in the future?

3. What are some parts of the writing that you actually think are good and would like to see more of?

Please try to make suggestions that are actually feasible rather than things like "remove x character."

[hynaku]

I would have scrapped all of it and made the next story store on another star or planet that needed saving.

[Xrono_Amber]

Hmmmm....

I would have started with last Endwalker's patch. I think it would be more fun to just stumble on foreign princess during her unofficial visit to Sharlayan. Like, she arrived to personally annoy her brother Koana, who is there to grab some new plans to make another advancement to his homeland. Essentially, keeping him the scholarly-type, while making Wuk more carefree and eager to get into some troubles. I would remove her initial desire to get the throne and ask for our help in getting it. Dawntrail should start as a sort of summer vacation. We met with them both and Wuk personally invites us to her homeland because she really liked us. No deeper meaning.

Most of Dawntrail expansion should be focused on us learning more about Tural and it's inhabitants. So, yeah, sort of ARR 2.0 without us needing to carry around our title of Saviour of Universe and many other regals. More focus on Scions and their thoughts about the new continent and the life in general. More focus on actually some new and interesting cultures and not "bland traders", "bland farmers" and "bland crafters". I think in generally Tural lacks the....mmm....edge. Pretty much everything is too sterile, friendly and pure for nation that was barely united. Let us see some grim traces of unification. Of tension between different peoples.

Later down the line, the question of new king should come into question. I propose the idea of having just 3 contestants, with Wuk supporting Koana from the get-go. Zoraal Ja should have desire for more isolationism and self-reliance, attemt to mend a single nation with single culture under single ruler. Koana can essentially keep his motivations unchanged, but make him a bit more awkward with actual human interaction, Sort of the idea of great bureaucrat who prefers to stay in the shadows, while his dear sister, Wuk, is the one who explains Koana's ideas to people and makes his aims resulting in more down-to-earth approach. Bakool Ja Ja should purely represent Mamook and their aim to break away from newly made piece either by total separation or by getting preferential treatment. And since unification happened just recently, idea for allowing him to enter with such claim would be to have him be defeated and calm down separatism, since Mamook lack military strength to make their goals real....for now, at least.

As we go along with trials, Koana should realise that just having right ideas is not enough. He should be able to lead people. Inspire them. And he can't quite do it. While Wuk, who is not as bright in terms of ideas, is perfectly capable in uniting people with her carefree approach and desire to know more and help more. So by the end Koana and Wuk win, not just Koana. And that's pretty much it. Both Zoraal Ja and Bakool Ja Ja should grudgingly accept their defeat, but not be convinced in pointlessness of their goals.

[Xrono_Amber]

With patches starting as Electro-Dome appearing in Shaaloani and Tural struggling to fight off against unusual invaders. Said struggle should be the whole post-patches, while Solution Nine and reflection-traveling method should be left for a full new expansion \o/

[MoofiaBossVal]

My main issue was the lack of tension. It is a very long story punctuated by some ocassional neat moments, but I was overall bored and found myself spending more time alt+tabbed out to browse the internet than engaged and sitting on the edge of my seat wanting to find out what happens next.

Right off the bat, it does not feel like there is an urgency or stakes to the contest. Bajool Ja Ja is just a bully and then keeps failing so no reason to fear him. Zoraal Ja never came across as threatening. So I go to Urqopacha and Kozam and spend a lot of time meandering around and doing chores and Wuk gets two keystones, and then eventually the only thing that happens is that Wuk Lamat gets kidnapped, and then we get her back and she hasn't lost any keystones. The turning point for me was when the doom bird was unleashed and nothing happened. I was expecting it was going to be like FF9 or FF10 and villages would have to be evacuated, settlements wiped off the face of the earth, the army mobilized and divisions wiped out, etc. But we just teleport onto a rock with 8 guys and kill it just like that with no casualties. That greatly diminished my interest in the story, and then the cooking contest had the two agreeable good guys paired with each other vs the two antagonists, and at that point it is clear there is no risk of failure or anything bad happening, and I abandoned the MSQ to go level up alt jobs instead.

[MoofiaBossVal]

Meant to edit this into my first post, but the edit button is not appearing on mobile.

My changes would be to first shorten the MSQ and trim all of that repetitive, unimportant dialgoue and scenes that pad and disrespect my time. Have the vanu vanu in Kozam actually be hurting from the storm with some people killed so our helping them actually means something. Bakool Ja Ja steals Wuk's keystones and flees so now we need to fight him before the end. Valigarmanda levels a settlement and kills some people before dying. Wuk loses thd cooking contest and does not get a keystone, so now she is faced with the awful dillema that she has to rob her brothers to win the challenge (in the end Koana and Wuk pool their keystones together and dad lets it slide, but it creates tension for that section to keep the player wanting to find out how that is resolved). And so on.

Zoraal Ja could have been more threatening had we seen him scoping out the WoL and then planning to kill or discredit him in preparation for his invasion of Eorzea.

When Koana and Wuk become the new rulers, we should have seen that there was some discontent among the populace, give how at the beginning Zoraal Ja and Koana were far and away the most popular, and Wuk was unpopular. People should have questioned Wuk's ability, and some should have mobilized and reported to Zoraal Ja intending to fight to install him as king.

Cowboys and Estinien should not have defeated the sci fi fleet in Shaalonni with zero casualties. Also, Midgardsomr died fighting a Garlean ship so some dragons should have died against the fleet at Tuliyollal, and the airships should have bombarded part of the city in retailation before being driven off or destroyed, lending weight to what is happening and making the enemy feel threatening. Also, this fight would still be ongoing while the player enters the dome to give them more urgency to stop Zoraal Ja and save the people fighting and dying outside.

Once inside the dome, we should have been sneaking around trying to avoid patrols, infiltrating settlements trying not to give ourselves away as we find out most people have become loyal to Sphene. Again tension to keep the player engaged. The 5th zone we got feels very boring as it is just a lot of walking around talking to people with no urgency or threat. We still eventually meet and befriend Sphene trying to rebel against Zoraal Ja.

Don't have Wuk singlehandedly jump in alone during the final trial, have her show up with G'raha and Krile. Don't have the player leisurely and consciously murder the Endless, but instead show that there is a tear forming in the sky as the barrier between worlds is being weakened, and emphasize that the player is racing against time to destroy the shield generators srruounding Sphene, and the erasure of the Endless comes as a surprise but a very unfortunate side effect and they can't stop to pontificate about it right now.

[Carin-Eri]

I think it's safe to say that a lot of people are disappointed with Dawntrail's writing, myself included. Something I've noticed about how people tend to criticize the expansion on here is that a lot of it seems focused on stating what went wrong. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, as identifying the problem is an important step in criticism, but something that I think would benefit discussion is if we talked more about how the writing could be improved. To try to generate this, I have three questions that I'd like to see other players answer:

1. What would you have done differently with Dawntrail's writing and how would you have done it?

2. What are some suggestions you have for how the MSQ could go in the future?

3. What are some parts of the writing that you actually think are good and would like to see more of?

Please try to make suggestions that are actually feasible rather than things like "remove x character."

Good questions.

1: Firstly, I'd place more emphasis on elements that we were led to believe would be important but, sadly, wound up being pretty insignificant. For example, in the pre-release promotional material it was made clear that the Scions would separately ally themselves with the Dawnservant candidates and that there would be some 'internal conflict' (for lack of a better term) as a result. That would've been interesting - but, as we know, nothing actually came of it.
We were also led to believe that Krile would receive some significant character development. And nothing really came of that either.
Both of these scenarios could've have been interesting plot points but they squandered them.

I also think Solution 9 should have been better handled. There was SO much mystery and speculation surrounding it prior to Dawntrail's release. But - for me at least - it ended up being the epitome of an anticlimax. We just.... arrive there. And it was given its name for incredibly boring reasons.

And most of all - lose Wuk Lamat interfering with the Queen Eternal fight. That was utterly unnecessary, almost everyone hates it, and it completely contradicted the preceding dialogue.

2: Honestly? Just better writing really. We need the storyline quality that the likes of Shadowbringers and (for me) Endwalker gave us. I don't feel Dawntrail was as catastrophically bad as some do, but I'll also concede that it's story didn't evoke the emotional highs and lows that some have come to expect from the MSQ.
There was a ton of potential in Dawntrail that better writing could've have used more effectively.

3: The journey to Tural was pretty well written overall. The dungeons and trials were actually really good.

[Gwenkatsu]

1. What would you have done differently with Dawntrail's writing and how would you have done it?

I would have put some effort into it.

As snarky as that may sound, this it IMO the main problem with Dawntrail's MSQ.

The story around Wuk Lamat is a coming of age story - we follow some other person while they're developing their character. I'm currently playing another alt in story mode (i.e. read all the text, watch all the videos), and am now in Heavensward. I think Estinien is a very good example for how a character can develop. He starts out as a very simple fighter with one reason in life: "Dragons killed my family, now I kill all dragons". But during his journey with Iceheart, Alphinaud and the WoL he gets to learn a completely different side of history, he starts asking questions, slowly accepts that Ishgard's version of history is a huge lie - and develops as a character.
But Wuk Lamat? Childish -> Childish -> Childish -> Superhero. WTF is that? There was 0 effort spent into her, and IMO that is what made her fail so hard.

Or take Zoraal Ja. This "character" was a joke from the very beginning. "Nobody in my country wants a war, so I will start one to show them how bad war is. That'll teach them not to want things they do not want anyway." And as soon as he fails, he goes full discount Zenos (first kill Daddy, then everyone else, because reasons). His character made no sense at any stage, and there was not a trace of development at all.

Or Koana, Great Lover Of Rroneek? /sigh/ This part of 7.1 is so poorly written, it's a pain to read through it.

While the story in and of itself was ok in my book, the writing was cheap, with no effort put into it. Looking at Heavensward or Shadowbringers, I know that they can do much better - and they should!

2. What are some suggestions you have for how the MSQ could go in the future?

I liked not being the saviour of the Universe for once (I hated when Alexandria popped out of nowhere and we were back to another Save the World storyline). So I could go with another more light hearted story, but seeing how they could not even do half a MSQ without a world ending threat, I have my doubts about that.

3. What are some parts of the writing that you actually think are good and would like to see more of?

I loved the way Gulool Ja Ja was written (and I hated the super cheap way they removed him from the story - being killed in slow motion, while half a dozen of the strongest fighters in the world just stand there, gaping mouth, drooling from the chin).
I would like to see more characters that are well written and make sense in the context of the story.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Not going super in-depth right now because I'm half asleep still, so just spitballing some random ideas, but.....

First of all, I would've wrapped up the Golbez plot sooner, to give at least a full patch to setting up 7.0. The half-patch didn't have enough time to actually tell us anything about Tural, which didn't help the early quests feeling bloated with exposition.

Give Krile more to do. She's along to find out about her past, but all we get is a few moments of being told she looking into it offscreen before we move on to the next zone. Show, don't tell.

Change the setup of Bakool Ja Ja capturing Wuk Lamat. Instead of her just going with an obviously suspicious messenger while we stand around, have the WoL go with her, only to get ambushed by Bakool Ja Ja and his flunkies. Make it a solo duty, ending with the Mystic head using a sleep spell to knock Wuk and the WoL out, but only having enough time to grab Wuk and get away before the Scions catch up. Not only would it help set up Bakool Ja Ja as an actual threat (which the game kinda fails at), it would give far more meaning to Wuk Lamat's later solo fight against him to show her actually growing as a warrior.

Delete the random bird injuring that group of Yok Huy before the second dungeon. Have one of them injured by Zoraal Ja instead, showing his ruthlessness at pursuing his goals.

Remove Bakool Ja Ja deliberately freeing Valigarmanda. Maybe the sealing ritual (stated to be the original intended trial) just fails, due to none of the candidates being willing to actually cooperate. Let the failure tie into Bakool Ja Ja's inferiority complex and Zoraal Ja's increasingly unhinged mental state.

Make the fight against Galool Ja Ja's Shade a full trial. Move it down a few levels if necessary. Show us the full unleashed might of the Dawnservant.

End the main story with Zoraal Ja's trial. After we push him back out of Everkeep, he retreats to Living Memory, to try to use all of the souls stored there as a last-ditch power-up.

Over the patches, develop the idea of the shades in Living Memory. Show us more of how they're stuck in a loop, repeating the same actions for eternity. Play it up for all the subtle horror possible. Let us actually feel just how wrong it is. Then have Sphene turn on us.

[Valence]

There is more to it but the more I think about it, the more I think I can summarize it into: remove the shounen tone and tropes. XIV wasn't totally empty of it before, but it was marginal and mostly contained to some character tropes and not the whole writing and tone.

I think the world building is still sound and solid. I enjoyed it at least.