Roles Standardization (tanks,healers)

[BabyYoda]

There is lots of discussion about how jobs are homogenized, but there are things that should be there in the job kit to make it functional like other jobs.

Lets discuss this, what considered homogenized and main function that makes X job fit to its role.

If we say all healers kit should have the following,
- healers should have a spell that increase players HP, single and party wide.
- healers should have a spell that trigger barrier, defense increase.
- healers should have a spell that raise other players

what is more that need to be standardized for tanks/healers? and what do you think that devs can play around to make other jobs unique within the role itself?

[BigCheez]

I don't think it's that simple and I think this oversimplification is ruining the game.

Rather than trying to make sure that all healers are able to do the same thing, I think it would be better to make sure that all healers are able to effectively deal with specific scenarios, at least to an extent.

i.e., all healers need to be able to help mitigate burst damage. One healer might do this via a shield, another might have a % damage reduction, another might be able to stagger the damage and convert it into a DoT that's easier to heal off.

The same applies to tanks. One might have a lot of mitigation. One might have a lot of self-healing. One might be able to shield itself and nullify a lot of damage. One might have a lot of evasion and avoid a lot of damage alltogether. One might be squishy but deal considerably more damage. One might deal incredibly well with magic damage but struggle against physical or vice-versa. One might be well rounded and not excel in any area. I think jobs having clearly defined identities and strengths and weaknesses would make for a more interesting game.

[MisterNublet]

I'd rather have some healers better at sustained healing than others, some better at burst healing, better at single target healing vs group healing, shields v hots vs direct, etc.

Giving each job a strength and weakness gives each job an identity. The current design around healers in FFXIV is atrocious.

I went back to WoW and I'm having more fun healing on 7 different classes than I did on FFXIV's "4" jobs.

[Shougun]

Personally, especially as wow is starting to absorb the benefits we have here, I would lean even harder as special by making jobs not really have that structure.

By that I mean sure a healer heals... But there isn't a strict check list of 10 heals half dots or something.

Make the jobs as thematically fun as possible, even if that means whole systems onto themselves. Like blue mage spells or beasts for beast master, or puppets, etc.

The massively fast gist on leaning into job format is just that the game can use both gear expression and also ease of gearing to complete more balance centric content. Where gear would be more unique but occasionally intentionally designed to specific builds to subsidize their shortcomings, and the ease of gear making it not like FFXI where you had to fight tooth and nail for that. On top of it, in the most balance centric spaces you could switch jobs without huge pain.

So yeah, you will definitely have jobs in certain situations that does better.

In DF, who cares. Make it fun. (Who cares doesn't mean hot garbage, just a wild idea that can actually exist).

[NegativeS]

As I have said before, it is impossible to truly "balance" classes in an MMO like WoW or FFXIV. The best you can do is give each class a niche to fill, and design content so these niches are consistently present in content.

If classes are the same but content is different, then there is no meaningful choice in terms of what class to play.
If classes are different but content is the same, then whatever class brings the bigger numbers will be the one chosen, also removing meaningful choice.

Homogenization, standardization, or whatever buzzword of the month that means "to make uniform", is the exact opposite direction SE needs to be following in terms of class and encounter design.

This is something WoW learned in the womb, but for some reason FFXIV seems to exist in a state of denial about it. Likely because it's cheaper to have one guy design all jobs within a role/subrole.