Can we get a buff for Viper? (Ultimate content)

[brinn12]

I'm not banning anyone and i'm not saying people should ban anyone, and i guarantee i'm hitting my striking dummy more than you, but it doesn't mean that the situation is fine and nothing should be done. I've done TOP on patch and i clearly remember there was absolutely not this kind of imbalance, the only dps problem in TOP was in P2, if you didn't have white mage or sage or dragoon or reaper in P2 then you would have way more trouble beating P2 easily, but that was not on the same level than FRU and that was on a weird 2 targets situation, on FRU we are talking about full single target imbalance on 2 consecutive phases. What if picto was not broken ? Then you are saying that it would be understandable to ban viper and machinist because it would be too hard to beat P1 and 2.

Anyway, it's not because the fight is feasible with any team that we should not at least hope to see every job perform decently when there are absolutely obvious ways to fix those problems and it should have been done before the ultimate even came out.

You're blaming the developers for VPR being excluded from PFs. This job was more than fine in Savage. FRU is its first on patch Ultimate. Ultimates have different durations and uptime for every phase. A 4% difference in an Ultimate is not unhealthy for the game, as this could mean jobs are not homogenized.

I am not disagreeing that VPR and MCH need changes to perform better in Ultimates. I main MCH and the job has been underperforming for 3 expansions. But it was viable in EW, still is now. Excluding VPR/MCH in parties without PCT is not justified, the issue is just worse when you already have a PCT. What you should do is avoid joining these PFs, if people really are coping for the perfect composition in a fight without relevant DPS checks, rather than looking for good players.

Also you're telling me some people swapped to MCH in TOP because of P2? P4 was a major problem, and many groups struggled with P6 damage. P1 was much harder... For any effect, in PF, TOP would see more clean enrages, and it's not even close. So you tell the people who ban VPR to hit the striking dummy, rather than blame the developers. MCH and RPR were good picks in TOP, and not very good in DSR. These variations are healthy for the game.

[Karuya]

You're blaming the developers for VPR being excluded from PFs. This job was more than fine in Savage. FRU is its first on patch Ultimate.

Actually Viper was not really fine even in savage if you look carefuly at the statistics and consider every aspect of those fights : if you look at maximum(95%) potential damage in cdps on patch 7.05 on arcadion, you'll see only reaper was behind viper by 1%, but the viper was lower than samourai by a whooping 5%, monk was equal to samourai, and ninja and dragoon were the best(with picto of course). After that, ninja, dragoon and samourai were all buffed in 7.10, while viper and reaper didn't get anything.

And that was on arcadion, a raid tier that was clearly designed to give an advantage to the viper because there was a lot of movement where the viper could benefit from his uncoiled fury. It was alarming to see that viper was not the best by a big margin seeing how those fights worked and how uncoiled fury looked totally broken. Statistics on 7.10 patch are not relevant because nobody's doing this content seriously nowadays, so the viper has an advantage because easy to play and uncoiled fury.

So it was obvious from the start that viper would be bad in FRU, just like it was obvious that picto would break the fight if nothing was done, and it delivered. Viper is effectively the worst melee if we consider the entire fight even though he's supposed to have a big advantage in P4 thanks to his 40% cleave on burst. Even that is not enough to catch up to samourai who is the second worst melee on this fight. Which also clearly shows that the selfish jobs are always the weakest ones : Viper, samourai, machinist and even black mage if we compare it to picto or even red mage.

I think it clearly underlines a problem with the dps profile difference between selfish and buffers, in my opinion every selfish job should have a higher burst than buffers because it seems like it's the only way to mostly balance every type of dps, give them advantages in some situations or others, and to give them a decent synergy with their team. Currently, selfish just don't have any advantages. Problems always come from the idea that some dps should do "long term" dps, it was the monk 10 years ago and it disappeared, was samourai on Stormblood and it disappeared to get an insane burst, now they give it to the viper and it will disappear.

During endwalker, samourai didn't really have this problem because devs had already realized that samourai could never compete with other melee if they don't give a clear edge : an insane burst. Now that's exactly the same for viper, it will never have a good damage potential if you don't increase his synergy with his team's buffs. Same for machinist, same for black mage.

[Karuya]

Also you're telling me some people swapped to MCH in TOP because of P2?

P2 was a problem because if you didn't have jobs with a good 2 targets cleave like white mage, then you would have trouble killing it without spending recourses that you should keep for P3, so you would be late for P3, so you would be late for P4. P4 was hard but was not the same problem because that was a single target, and it was the end of the big dps race, P5 dps check was easy, you had to spend eveything either at the end of P3, either during P4, depends on your team, for example i as a samourai would hold my burst for P4 while my team would burst in the end of P3. I didn't say anything about machinist in P2, i don't remember.

Anyway, i don't disagree with you on anything actually, and sorry i said banning a job in PF is kinda ok, i actually find it ridiculous, i was just speaking out of frustration for my job. But i'm still surprised that the devs didn't realize sooner how unbalanced this ultimate would be while statistics clearly showcased it.