FFXIV population decline continues

[Bitmoar]

Endwalker's post-MSQ patches were the first time I started skipping cutscenes in 12 years. Some of the worst writing, storylines ever. At least I thought...until I experienced Dawntrail. Amazing how quickly my excitement melted away, thinking I was getting a fun "summer vacation" detour expansion and wound up with that tonally enept swill.

I was the same, except I only started skipping in post DT quests. My eyes sort of glazed over during the fiends arc, but I still enjoyed it well enough because I personally liked Zero and Vrtra/Varshahn. XIV is the only FF I've played so their attempts at nostalgia baiting don't really work on me. The lead up to DT is where the trepidation started. I know people are sick and tired of hearing this but.... Wuk Lamat. I thought she was lovable enough in 6.5x, but our forced decision to back her as a ruler for her nation sort of left me stunned and annoyed lol. Thought the story would convince us that she's worthy. Well, no. She tripped and face planted into success repeatedly while we and every other side character served as emotionless props. Anyway, the topic has been beaten to death. Point is, I'll be skipping until we're done with her. I've heard 7.2 was actually pretty good, but I really can't be assed. She takes up all the oxygen in the room and I just pray to god that wherever we go next we leave her behind for good outside of small infrequent preferably unvoiced cameos.

[YovelaLindswood]

I was the same, except I only started skipping in post DT quests. My eyes sort of glazed over during the fiends arc, but I still enjoyed it well enough because I personally liked Zero and Vrtra/Varshahn. XIV is the only FF I've played so their attempts at nostalgia baiting don't really work on me. The lead up to DT is where the trepidation started. I know people are sick and tired of hearing this but.... Wuk Lamat. I thought she was lovable enough in 6.5x, but our forced decision to back her as a ruler for her nation sort of left me stunned and annoyed lol. Thought the story would convince us that she's worthy. Well, no. She tripped and face planted into success repeatedly while we and every other side character served as emotionless props. Anyway, the topic has been beaten to death. Point is, I'll be skipping until we're done with her. I've heard 7.2 was actually pretty good, but I really can't be assed. She takes up all the oxygen in the room and I just pray to god that wherever we go next we leave her behind for good outside of small infrequent preferably unvoiced cameos.

I play the game in german where the story is actually better so I didnt really hate wuk lamat. What I hated was Bagul Ja Ja. They had such a good irredeemable villain that was the antithesis of what Wuk Lamat stood for. Dude was arrogant prideful and the embodiment of nepotism. Believing he deserved it by merit of physical characteristics rather than quality of character. He was Wuk Lamat's internal struggle manifested as a villain who needed to be overcome. Such a strong plot vice did a complete 180 and im supposed to believe he released the angry bird and threatened an entire tribes existence because he cares about the lives of children? He abandoned his own team because he cares about his people? He was such a fun villain that completely fit the new world exploration lighthearted vibe of dawntrail. No world ending stakes just a new adventure with quirky enemies and laughable motives. When he became another bleeding heart "relatable" villain is the point I just skipped the rest of the cutscenes. They straight up character assassinated him and it felt like the story writers of the second half of the xpac were not the same as the ones from the first half.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The "We kinda wanted to see what sticks" shotgun approach instead of a clear plan kinda screams that they are lacking any sort of a talented team or plan behind the story at the moment. No wonder politics are axed off the list, doubt these new writers could write anything more complex than "This nation bad, this nation good, warrior of Light go to good nation, fight against bad nation, big evil appear, bad nation becomes good guys because good vibes and "need to work together" the end."

Once upon a time, I vent to a friend about my boatloads of dislikes of 7.0-7.1 narratives - A long list, that was. The one that struck me hardest was the fact I admitted of feeling like I was reading through some shallowly thought out dating sim visual novel - I didn't want to believe that until that friend literally just dumped me a link to DT main writer's past works, together with said writer's known trademark.

Welp, FML I guess lol.

[Jeeqbit]

I play the game in german where the story is actually better so I didnt really hate wuk lamat. What I hated was Bagul Ja Ja. They had such a good irredeemable villain that was the antithesis of what Wuk Lamat stood for. Dude was arrogant prideful and the embodiment of nepotism. Believing he deserved it by merit of physical characteristics rather than quality of character. He was Wuk Lamat's internal struggle manifested as a villain who needed to be overcome. Such a strong plot vice did a complete 180 and im supposed to believe he released the angry bird and threatened an entire tribes existence because he cares about the lives of children?

This was extremely sudden, I agree, but I came round to it after a while. It does make sense to me that he'd put his values aside and succumb to the pressure to represent his people (people fighting wars or born into fame have to do this); the problem is just how extremely sudden it was.

Let's take Darth Vader. Seems completely evil just choking people, not redeemable in the slightest. There is a slow process of Luke Skywalker slowly instilling into his brain that he has values he's been suppressing and that those values are the reason he wouldn't kill him. He continually says things like "that was why you couldn't destroy me", "I will not turn, and you'll be forced to kill me", "you can't do this, I've felt the good in you, the conflict", "like my father before me", etc. Leading to a moment where he has to choose between his SON and some "evil friend" he's had for decades, and he realizes Luke was right.

Whereas Bakool Ja Ja was completely out of nowhere with no build up to that turn, and at least no foreshadowing that I remember (but I didn't replay it yet). At least having some noticeable breadcrumbs we could use to start the process of relating to him may have made it a bit less sudden.

[Carin-Eri]

Anyway, the topic has been beaten to death. Point is, I'll be skipping until we're done with her. I've heard 7.2 was actually pretty good, but I really can't be assed. She takes up all the oxygen in the room and I just pray to god that wherever we go next we leave her behind for good outside of small infrequent preferably unvoiced cameos.

7.2 was good, and that was (arguably) for the exact reason you state. Without spoiling anything, Wuk Lamat does take a back-seat in 7.2. That isn't to say that she's gone, but she doesn't play a big part in it.

[Hallarem]

Once upon a time, I vent to a friend about my boatloads of dislikes of 7.0-7.1 narratives - A long list, that was. The one that struck me hardest was the fact I admitted of feeling like I was reading through some shallowly thought out dating sim visual novel - I didn't want to believe that until that friend literally just dumped me a link to DT main writer's past works, together with said writer's known trademark.

Welp, FML I guess lol.

I saw that too, that one of the writers main works was a nurse visual novel or something? Didnt want to believe it was his only CV material, but at this phase I wouldnt be surprised.

[Hallarem]

This was extremely sudden, I agree, but I came round to it after a while. It does make sense to me that he'd put his values aside and succumb to the pressure to represent his people (people fighting wars or born into fame have to do this); the problem is just how extremely sudden it was.

Let's take Darth Vader. Seems completely evil just choking people, not redeemable in the slightest. There is a slow process of Luke Skywalker slowly instilling into his brain that he has values he's been suppressing and that those values are the reason he wouldn't kill him. He continually says things like "that was why you couldn't destroy me", "I will not turn, and you'll be forced to kill me", "you can't do this, I've felt the good in you, the conflict", "like my father before me", etc. Leading to a moment where he has to choose between his SON and some "evil friend" he's had for decades, and he realizes Luke was right.

Whereas Bakool Ja Ja was completely out of nowhere with no build up to that turn, and at least no foreshadowing that I remember (but I didn't replay it yet). At least having some noticeable breadcrumbs we could use to start the process of relating to him may have made it a bit less sudden.

Yeah, pretty sure there wasn't a spot or gradual build up. Just a sudden 180 twist when the plot demanded it. Without going too deeply into the failure of the story of DT, that one was my pet peeve. Along with the clear easy choices like making the two "villains" do the cooking contest together and the two "heroes" instead of mixing it up. Kinda hypocritical of a contest thats meant to show you how the land works together and is enjoying ""Papa's peace" but I doubt these writers think too deeply about these things.

[Ranhansha]

Hot take. The decline started in Shadowbringers. Specifically after 5.3
The mess that EW was could be mitigated by the fanservice, the catharsis and closure it provided and the epicness of the story in general. DT is devoid of all that and has become a trainwreck. Tbh, I don't even know why people think 7.2 is good. Evil anime girl making evil faces as if she were Amon/Hermes/Fandaniel yet again? Evil anime scientist being a cliche? I'm simply talking about the story. We can talk about content some other day.

[Hallarem]

Hot take. The decline started in Shadowbringers. Specifically after 5.3
The mess that EW was could be mitigated by the fanservice, the catharsis and closure it provided and the epicness of the story in general. DT is devoid of all that and has become a trainwreck. Tbh, I don't even know why people think 7.2 is good. Evil anime girl making evil faces as if she were Amon/Hermes/Fandaniel yet again? Evil anime scientist being a cliche? I'm simply talking about the story. We can talk about content some other day.

EW was a mess, but yeah Shadowbringers was cool, but also kind of killed all the political intrigue in the game. We jumped the shark into a universal struggle before we even solved or met the issues on our own planet. EW just amplified that issue by jumping the shark 5000. Distant planet? Naaah fam, EDGE OF THE UNIVERSE. Garlemald? Naah fam, Zenos the most useless dishrag of a villain ever after Stormblood just shook his ass and made it dissapear OFFSCREEN, the nation we fought against the most in the whole game DISSAPEARED OFF SCREEN, forget politics. What a dumb decision to the fact that Sharlayan just farted out a spaceship because they are soooo smart. The whole Allagan were an advanced civilization who the Garleans couldnt reverse engineer so magitek was born was solved for the plot by Sharlayan in an afternoon. It's just a mess, but people don't look at what all this asspull tech would mean to world balance. Their only counter-argument gotcha is always "Well hurpadurp.. FF's have always had tech and scifi, checkmate nerds!" Without looking at how many leaps and bounds tech seems to be making in the game patch by patch.

The only positive about the patch was the performance the Real Sphene did, actually emotional, actually interested where her story arc goes, she had anger, sorrow and all sorts of emotions to display about situations you'd understand her having. Personal motivations, she was an actual character. I don't think the story can be salvaged at this phase of DT, but atleast I am interested where that character goes. I hope they become an adventurer. I hope Fordola joins us too, because at least she says things that contradict with the usual emotionless sign-post dialogue the Scions have nowadays. I want the people to argue, to talk like real people, to have differing opinions.

The Scions don't have any personal motivations, they are annoying "Yes-men" to the warrior of Light, while being questmarkers and convenient solutions to problems, much like the whole of Sharlayan and Dynamis is (hopefully less than more). AND they hush you down from any spicier dialogue options with "Oh lets not be like that." like a dev waggling their finger at you.

Yes the villain is bargain bin / garbage bin anime child scientist wizkid with Sphenedaniel smiley face at his side. Though not anymore I think? DT has managed to kill any interest to me on where it goes except maybe the glimmering hope that Sphene becomes an adventurer. We can leave a council to lead Solution 9 or something.

Just put in fox girls or something SE, the writing and worldbuilding is a wreck

[Chasingstars]

I think they need a timeskip for the story. Like a legitimate few years forward. And that the stakes should be impactful and yet personal, and pertains to the WoL. Which is why the tail-end of stormblood and into shadowbringers worked as it managed to weave the personal and cosmic stakes together in a great way, and I am referring to the 5.0 MSQ in order to prevent another rejoining.

And the other reason I think an actual timeskip is needed is the world of FFXIV is becoming a floating timeline. Like after ARR, HW, SB, SHB, EW, and DT, it is beginning to seem really implausible that all these events for the source happens in a single year. Floating Timelines are basically the Peter Pan of fictional worlds, the world and its characters seem in a perpetual stasis despite all the events that happen, often this is because the main characters are very marketable and iconic as they currently are and actually allowing them to grow older would potentially ruin that marketability. This can also apply to locations where nothing seems to really change.