Viper's weapon concept is wasted

[Azurarok]

The dual wielded and combined modes of the weapon is really cool but the job's skills don't utilize the concept at all. All the switching between the forms is done automatically so it's pretty much just there for visual flair and nothing else. Between that and Gnashing Fang being removed so soon after release, it feels like they had ideas and then kept making changes until the job lost its identity and had been scrambling to make it functional up to and through release.

I was hoping for each mode to have meaning and a need to manually switch between the two, like have actual high-speed GCD attacks with limited weave windows when dual wielded, then have access to buff/debuff upkeep in combined mode. Has anyone else expected the job to be sorta like that?

[Carighan]

Yeah my main gripe with the job is that the only reason to exist it has is to showcase how superior PvP-style autocombos are to having everything separate.

The concept... there is none, beyond that. No lore, no nothing. I understand it's a japanese trope they added to the game, but it's so silly to "waste" a whole job on that, instead of just some NPC in the Hildibrand line or something.

At least they ought to make DW much faster (no weaving possible at all) and 2H much slower to compensate, with huge sweeping always-full-AoE hits on every move. And like you say, there ought to be meaning behind the modes. A simple builder/spender might work, although I'd prefer something like:

* In DW mode, you use the left/right autocombos. No weaving. 1.0s GCD, so you got enough to press. Left/right is now fully randomized, no more self-buffs. No positions. As you fight, you build up your meter. Only correctly pressed left/right attacks give meter.
* To switch to 2H mode, you use one of the two 2H moves. They're also 3-hit autocombos that go left/right, but these aren't fully randomized. Each puts a strong debuff on the target, there are six of these (four stackable DoTs that last 60s, a damage-taken increase, a health-drain). The selection of left/right you'll get for the 3-hit autocombo is those debuffs that are missing or have the least time left.
* Unempowered (non-glowing) 2H hits don't apply their debuff.
* Each correct hit costs some of the bar you built up in DW mode.
* Your oGCD weaves are used in 2H mode only. You still double-weave, order is fully random, if done correctly the "opposite" debuff of whatever move you just did is also applied at half duration (e.g. you got step 1 left 2H move, you press that for a 60s DoT #1, you get right->left on the weaves, you do that, you also apply DoT #2 but only for 30s).

I'd keep 2H GCD at 3.5s in this setup actually, since there's no more self-haste it'd feel proper slow.

One big upside of such a setup is that we'd have another class that has no ability to do a fixed rotation. Or rather, it kinda does, but also there's not a single pre-determined button really, it's all dynamic and/or randomized. In return the whole job only needs 6 buttons for its main combat setup, and I far prefer depth over complexity for combat.

[Valence]

I'll admit that I was a little confused not to actually get two modes for dual blades and twinblade to play around as well.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

The entire jobs identity is anime swordsman, even the devs mentioned Viper is based on Kirito from Sword Art Online because that's what players have wanted for years. Doesn't get much more anime than dual wielding swords, power-up modes, leather long coats and flash stepping.

I found the job quests to be extremely lacking too, they never explain what reawakening even is or how/why you do it, kinda like how the Reaper job quests never explain how Enshrouding works. Basically, a Viper is a hunter from Turali and we never really go further into it than that.

[Darkstride]

The entire jobs identity is anime swordsman, even the devs mentioned Viper is based on Kirito from Sword Art Online because that's what players have wanted for years. Doesn't get much more anime than dual wielding swords, power-up modes, leather long coats and flash stepping.

I found the job quests to be extremely lacking too, they never explain what reawakening even is or how/why you do it, kinda like how the Reaper job quests never explain how Enshrouding works. Basically, a Viper is a hunter from Turali and we never really go further into it than that.

Yeah, I remember in a Live Letter they specifically said you would learn about Reawaken during the job quests and yet .....it's just there. The job itself just feels like a visual concept with mechanics added so that it functions. When I'm playing it I know what buttons to press, but thematically it doesn't really feel like I know what I'm doing. It's just big fast flashes.

[mallleable]

Yeah, I remember in a Live Letter they specifically said you would learn about Reawaken during the job quests and yet .....it's just there. The job itself just feels like a visual concept with mechanics added so that it functions. When I'm playing it I know what buttons to press, but thematically it doesn't really feel like I know what I'm doing. It's just big fast flashes.

Gonna defend Reawaken because I think it's actually sorta clever with how it's implemented. Each step in the Reawaken the combo are your gauge building GCDs (Fangs, and Coils), so it's like you are revisiting the path you took to access Reawaken -- calling upon what came before, so not only does it work in terms of button consolidation, but it also works thematically. Ouroboros replacing the Reawaken button is also a nice thematic touch -- the head eats its tail. I think they should lean harder into these ouroboros/mobius strip ideas, but I think it's a bit of a hard sell

[Carighan]

The entire jobs identity is anime swordsman, even the devs mentioned Viper is based on Kirito from Sword Art Online because that's what players have wanted for years.

Sadly faced with two choices how to react to this (alleged) "demand", the devs did not go for inviting the players to the SQEX HQ and individually slapping them with a trout.

[Valence]

The entire jobs identity is anime swordsman, even the devs mentioned Viper is based on Kirito from Sword Art Online because that's what players have wanted for years. Doesn't get much more anime than dual wielding swords, power-up modes, leather long coats and flash stepping.

I found the job quests to be extremely lacking too, they never explain what reawakening even is or how/why you do it, kinda like how the Reaper job quests never explain how Enshrouding works. Basically, a Viper is a hunter from Turali and we never really go further into it than that.

On the other hand they specifically mentioned a more "western" design counterpart to ninja... And people immediately pointed fingers at Assassin's Creed. So what was it about then?

[Mikey_R]

* In DW mode, you use the left/right autocombos. No weaving. 1.0s GCD, so you got enough to press. Left/right is now fully randomized, no more self-buffs. No positions. As you fight, you build up your meter. Only correctly pressed left/right attacks give meter.

Just to point out, I think this is way too short of a time to parse which side lights up and then execute it, along with paying attention to mechanics. (not to mention I think every damaging GCD is at least 1.5 seconds long, with no way to make it shorter).

Also, at a cursory look, your rotation is kind of fixed. Every 30 seconds you need to use the 2H mode to ensure you keep the debuffs up, though there isn't a way to cleanly transition into the 30 second loop as you will need to overwrite 30 seconds of DoT timer in order to accomplish this.

This also ignores reawaken, since you didn't mention it, I assume it is still in? Which can affect meter generation, which could throw things out of alignment. If you don't have it, I suspect people will get bored as there is no big flashy attacks to work towards.

I just think you are trying to slap too much into the job just for the sake of it and aren't really bothered about how it would work out rotationally, not to mention you are adding 6 debuffs to a job. We already went through this period in the past and there was an issue in displaying lots of debuffs, which this isn't helping. Could they fix the issue from a UI standpoint? Probably, but it might be something they cannot fix, at least not easily. Bottom line is, we do not know.

One last thing, I don't know if you are someone who complains about this or not, but the job is still a builder spender. Considering that is one of the complaints about jobs being 'homogenised', just thought I would point it out.

[Wayfinder3]

Wish we got a Hammer class that was a melee dps that was slower on the gcd side of things, with little ogcds but long cast times and high potency. Kind of like pictomancer. then you get ogcds that proc when you slam into the ground to do further damage. It's not that unique but melee with legit cast times and high potency sounds kind of cool for some of us who are tired of fast job with a million ogcds that we can't seem to stop getting