We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[Havenchild]

That's not true.
The community mostly complained about Bozja being boring visually and yet another fate system.

The community overall absolutely complained about Diadem, but especially Eureka and Bozja, as being grindy, glorified fate trains. It was vastly unpopular content overall. Bozja ONLY escaped slightly from the negative sentiment because for a time period in SHB, it was the primary way of getting EXP, post them nerfing PVP EXP and before buffing dungeon EXP. But initially all were received poorly for both the fate system and in tangent, the requirements of the relic weapon being spam x dungeon/raid. This is likely why they forego'd an expedition in EW and also why Yoshi-P openly mentioned he was "surprised" that people actually wanted exploratory zones again.

People cry about anything on the internet, not really a new or groundbreaking point there. "You can mess up at least 2 towers at any given time, IF..." okay, not every raid will have shields ready to go for missed towers. Yes. The complainers DO want another alliance raid in general. Since, yknow, that's what was marketed. A harder 24 person alliance raid. Not a 24 person Savage trial thats Savage difficulty. The community is 100% a problem, but if you're going to forgive the developers blatantly messing this raid up in specific (which is ALSO a problem), then you as well are part of that problem.

Actually, news suggest....

Interview with Yoshi-P, Claims Savage difficulty:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fanta...hida-interview

Official PLL Digest - Claims Savage difficulty
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/512088

Unofficial Translation of PLL - Claims initial goal was Extreme, but it's tuned closer to Savage 1/2 when factoring in 24 people. Note: this is the only place that mentions Extreme. Not that I'm saying it wasn't said but even then there's acknowledgement that it was tuned higher.

https://x.com/Nova_Crystallis/status...83007271219440

So all confirming knowledge we have of Yoshi-P and devs comments on the content was that it was in fact having an expected difficulty of Savage 1 or 2, not extreme. Community is gaslighting itself.

[ExiaKuromonji]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX? When the live letter dropped for this Yoshi P said it was like a 4th floor savage fight when you considered the 24 people. For the record I don't think this fight is 4th floor difficulty, closer to M2S or M3S, but this is still well above something in normal to EX difficulty. Where did this idea come from?

[Supersnow845]

The community overall absolutely complained about Diadem, but especially Eureka and Bozja, as being grindy, glorified fate trains. It was vastly unpopular content overall. Bozja ONLY escaped slightly from the negative sentiment because for a time period in SHB, it was the primary way of getting EXP, post them nerfing PVP EXP and before buffing dungeon EXP. But initially all were received poorly for both the fate system and in tangent, the requirements of the relic weapon being spam x dungeon/raid. This is likely why they forego'd an expedition in EW and also why Yoshi-P openly mentioned he was "surprised" that people actually wanted exploratory zones again.



Actually, news suggest....

Interview with Yoshi-P, Claims Savage difficulty:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fanta...hida-interview

Official PLL Digest - Claims Savage difficulty
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/512088

Unofficial Translation of PLL - Claims initial goal was Extreme, but it's tuned closer to Savage 1/2 when factoring in 24 people. Note: this is the only place that mentions Extreme. Not that I'm saying it wasn't said but even then there's acknowledgement that it was tuned higher.

https://x.com/Nova_Crystallis/status...83007271219440

So all confirming knowledge we have of Yoshi-P and devs comments on the content was that it was in fact having an expected difficulty of Savage 1 or 2, not extreme. Community is gaslighting itself.

Bozja also still holds the record for “content not on the roulette with the most engagement” and it holds it by a whopping margin over everything else considering its engagement rivalled eden normal doing ShB,

They had complaints yes but if you are releasing optional content and it’s rivalling your core pillar content like the normal raid series despite taking 200 times as long to finish and your only response to that is to look at some forum threads and go “hmm people hated it” then you (general you not you specifically) don’t know how to read engagement statistics

Bozja can be described as nothing but a massive overwhelming success

[AllenThyl]

Official PLL Digest - Claims Savage difficulty
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/512088

Hilarious. After 1 week of "this fight is harder than was promised", turns out, it wasn't. No wonder there is so little interaction with the community, when even statements like "this fight will be savage level difficulty" doesn't translate to "this fight will be savage level difficulty" in people's heads.
Words matter, people. As does reading comprehension.

[Voidmage]

The community overall absolutely complained about Diadem, but especially Eureka and Bozja, as being grindy, glorified fate trains. It was vastly unpopular content overall. Bozja ONLY escaped slightly from the negative sentiment because for a time period in SHB, it was the primary way of getting EXP, post them nerfing PVP EXP and before buffing dungeon EXP. But initially all were received poorly for both the fate system and in tangent, the requirements of the relic weapon being spam x dungeon/raid. This is likely why they forego'd an expedition in EW and also why Yoshi-P openly mentioned he was "surprised" that people actually wanted exploratory zones again.

First:
I am not talking about Diadem.
Second:
You completely repeat what i said about the fates.
Third:
Bozja was absolutely not received poorly just criticized for some things which I already listed.
Fourth:
The RAIDS themself were overall liked with a few complaints here and there but mostly had the weakness of the entry being horrible and the rewards being crap.
Fifth:
It and Eureka have an extremely long engagement life so it is a succsess. So it can't be unpopular if so many people did it.
Sixth:
The forum is not the community overall.

Also to say that that was the reason we didn't get one in EW is quite a reach.
We probably didn't get one because they devs themself didn't want to make one and were doing criterion + IS and because the EW content was halfassed anyway.

Unofficial Translation of PLL - Claims initial goal was Extreme, but it's tuned closer to Savage 1/2 when factoring in 24 people. Note: this is the only place that mentions Extreme. Not that I'm saying it wasn't said but even then there's acknowledgement that it was tuned higher.[/url]

So all confirming knowledge we have of Yoshi-P and devs comments on the content was that it was in fact having an expected difficulty of Savage 1 or 2, not extreme. Community is gaslighting itself.

Or (and that is just a maybe like you already implied and not me trying to say it as fact) what Yoshida SAID on the live letter and what is WRITTEN here are two different things.
The unofficial translation translated everything even things he said while this here lists things that are prepared.
And the unofficial translation is what we have for the most part of the time.
People always say more than they intend even he.

[Immut]

Right, so...I'm just going to come out and say it: Chaotic is not meant for your average player. The problem? Chaotic is coordinated by 24 Players. THAT CAN'T SCREW UP.

I promise you I have gotten to enrage while screwing up many times, you can absolutely screw up. There's only one part where you can't, and that's towers 1. And if people are dying at towers 1, you weren't getting through towers 2.

[Somnolence]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX?

Same reason why people expected island sanctuary to be island sanctuary. Its up to developers to deliver what people expect.

[Kaurhz]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX? When the live letter dropped for this Yoshi P said it was like a 4th floor savage fight when you considered the 24 people. For the record I don't think this fight is 4th floor difficulty, closer to M2S or M3S, but this is still well above something in normal to EX difficulty. Where did this idea come from?

Seems to be a mix, really.. Some people just wanted harder 24-man alliance raid content... For some people this would be the equivalent to an unreal version of something like Ivalice, to others it might've been closer to BA which is closer to the gap between Normal and Extreme.

It was ultimately up to the devs to decide what this ultimately entailed.

[Lilapop]

The community overall absolutely complained about Diadem, but especially Eureka and Bozja, as being grindy, glorified fate trains. It was vastly unpopular content overall. Bozja ONLY escaped slightly from the negative sentiment because for a time period in SHB, it was the primary way of getting EXP, post them nerfing PVP EXP and before buffing dungeon EXP. But initially all were received poorly for both the fate system and in tangent, the requirements of the relic weapon being spam x dungeon/raid. This is likely why they forego'd an expedition in EW and also why Yoshi-P openly mentioned he was "surprised" that people actually wanted exploratory zones again.



Actually, news suggest....

Interview with Yoshi-P, Claims Savage difficulty:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fanta...hida-interview

Official PLL Digest - Claims Savage difficulty
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/512088

Unofficial Translation of PLL - Claims initial goal was Extreme, but it's tuned closer to Savage 1/2 when factoring in 24 people. Note: this is the only place that mentions Extreme. Not that I'm saying it wasn't said but even then there's acknowledgement that it was tuned higher.

https://x.com/Nova_Crystallis/status...83007271219440

So all confirming knowledge we have of Yoshi-P and devs comments on the content was that it was in fact having an expected difficulty of Savage 1 or 2, not extreme. Community is gaslighting itself.

Extreme vs Savage difficulty aside, people asked for a harder alliance raid, not a 24 person Savage trial. Unless I missed the large amount of people demanding a 24 person Savage trial, which none of your links even begin to address. Which was my whole point.

[ExiaKuromonji]

Same reason why people expected island sanctuary to be island sanctuary. Its up to developers to deliver what people expect.

I'm not able to find where the devs said it would be between normal and EX difficulty. So this comment doesn't really make sense to me.

Seems to be a mix, really.. Some people just wanted harder 24-man alliance raid content... For some people this would be the equivalent to an unreal version of something like Ivalice, to others it might've been closer to BA which is closer to the gap between Normal and Extreme.

It was ultimately up to the devs to decide what this ultimately entailed.

From what I see the devs literally said it would be either somewhere between EX and savage or in Yoshi P's case, 4th floor savage level. I'm not asking what people wanted. I'm asking why they expected this specific content to be easier. People are acting like the devs said it'd be unreal level.