We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[ExiaKuromonji]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX? When the live letter dropped for this Yoshi P said it was like a 4th floor savage fight when you considered the 24 people. For the record I don't think this fight is 4th floor difficulty, closer to M2S or M3S, but this is still well above something in normal to EX difficulty. Where did this idea come from?

[Somnolence]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX?

Same reason why people expected island sanctuary to be island sanctuary. Its up to developers to deliver what people expect.

[ExiaKuromonji]

Same reason why people expected island sanctuary to be island sanctuary. Its up to developers to deliver what people expect.

I'm not able to find where the devs said it would be between normal and EX difficulty. So this comment doesn't really make sense to me.

Seems to be a mix, really.. Some people just wanted harder 24-man alliance raid content... For some people this would be the equivalent to an unreal version of something like Ivalice, to others it might've been closer to BA which is closer to the gap between Normal and Extreme.

It was ultimately up to the devs to decide what this ultimately entailed.

From what I see the devs literally said it would be either somewhere between EX and savage or in Yoshi P's case, 4th floor savage level. I'm not asking what people wanted. I'm asking why they expected this specific content to be easier. People are acting like the devs said it'd be unreal level.

[Strigine]

I stopped doing savage after Stormblood just because of how exhausting it was for me (as someone with no static) to find people to practise with, only for the party to disband before even getting to the part I needed to practise. And when I wanted more practice after clearing, I had to either look for completion PFs that didn't mind the loot penalty, or wait until the next week and risk underperforming. I loved the fights, but I got burnt out.

This sounds the same but on an even larger scale. After trying it twice, and then waiting hours the next day to try a third time, I realised it isn't for me. These days, I play FFXIV in shorts spurts. My subscription ran out two days ago.

When I was told that we're getting a chaotic alliance raid, I didn't know who the target audience is, but I was hoping for something along the lines of the second and third Mhach raids or any of the Ivalice raids at the time of their release, perhaps slightly harder. Those raids were some of the most fun I had healing in this game. Without the rigidity of high-end content, they were easy to hop into at any time, but they still required paying attention to what's going on around you. Mistakes could snowball, but never to the point where a single person, like a first-timer or someone struggling with mechanics, repeatedly caused wipes. You could often improvise to make up for mistakes.

I do appreciate Dawntrail making fights a bit more engaging, but it still feels like they either lose their bite within a week or so, or are the type that requires too much coordination and prior planning. There is no middle ground.

Here's Rabanastre and Ridorana on day 1, blind, DF (and yes, despite how it looks, we cleared before time ran out.) Even after people figured out the mechanics, HW and StB alliance raids (...that aren't the Void Ark) remained fun throughout the entire expansion.




Jeuno on day 1, blind, DF. Lots of deaths, but no real threat. Less than two months later, we're already trouncing the bosses.


This is my own experience. I understand it's anecdotal.

[Gurgeh]

I stopped doing savage after Stormblood just ...
months later, we're already trouncing the bosses.

No Strigine your experience isn't anecdotal, it's scientifically reproduceable fact. It's 100% of why I've left now my friends have. They can do it, Chaotic proved they have resources, but they choose to spend my sub on top 30% savage, who appear to hate me and my mistakes from what I can see. They choose not to. But savage gamers and their release schedule is sacrosanct, and I'm supposed to pay for them. Well I don't have to and I won't be exploited to dev their overturned 1000 mechanic instances anymore.

It's absolutely this. Just absolutely this. They can do it, challenging casual. They used to challenging casual. Old old aurum vale. Old keeper of lake. Dunscathe, Rabansstre 100%, and while the story of ShB wasn't the most popular and the mechanics, until it was totally OPd much of the Nier raids. Many more besides but you don't deserve my time.

But EW raids were a nothing in terms of gameplay.
I was overly kind because I wanted to enjoy it but Thaleia was dreadful. I MT tanked it on release day 1 blind, didn't KO , and there was not one wipe. I can assure it's not Skill (not with me). Final raid day 1, and no wipe.

The last DT alliance was a nothing.

As someone unsubbed I just don't count the next alliance as 'playable' content. It's more token "click continue" content. Same for the dungeons are the first play. The trails have been cool, but you give me no reason to reque, and what I'll get in rouls has no challenge with gear. Normals same with gear, and n reason to replay now I'm not subbed and don't need the gear for the next content. (A reminder, I consider the sub to be awful value for the TOTAL absence of challenging content by the time you factor +10/15 iLvl, and the lack of value you get with just one extreme with no rewards.(100 tokens in 50 toxic abandon PFs it's just not fun. The toxicity can be fixed if you want to incentivise the right behaviour)

[Kanehon]

[snip...] I do appreciate Dawntrail making fights a bit more engaging, but it still feels like they either lose their bite within a week or so, or are the type that requires too much coordination and prior planning. There is no middle ground.

snip

Absolutely agreed with both of you. The new alliance raid, I was enjoying it a bunch with all the deaths, and a few wipes, we had. I didn't get to do it day 1, but still ran it blind on release weekend.

Now that it's been a bit, no more wipes happen, a couple deaths here and there. But the hardest part now is looking at the damn sword AoE telegraph because it's way bigger than my screen and I can't see where the fuck is it pointing at.


Meanwhile, I don't see how savage raiders will want to carry sprouts through Chaotic just for a couple extra tokens.

[Kaurhz]

Why do people think Chaotic was meant to be for midcore players between normal and EX? When the live letter dropped for this Yoshi P said it was like a 4th floor savage fight when you considered the 24 people. For the record I don't think this fight is 4th floor difficulty, closer to M2S or M3S, but this is still well above something in normal to EX difficulty. Where did this idea come from?

Seems to be a mix, really.. Some people just wanted harder 24-man alliance raid content... For some people this would be the equivalent to an unreal version of something like Ivalice, to others it might've been closer to BA which is closer to the gap between Normal and Extreme.

It was ultimately up to the devs to decide what this ultimately entailed.