Crazy Game Design Idea

[TBerry]

- RPers (housing, furniture, glam).

Better dice would be preferable too. While the dice do their jobs, being able to roll like 2 dice or add or subtract things would be nice.

I'm not talking about playing Death Dice here btw,.

[ovIm]

What if different players are interested in different things? SE is trying to make content for all the different categories of players, which spreads them thin

Man, you truly believe that, don't you? How you can be so blue-eyed is beyond me.

They are not spread thin because they are trying to make things for all the players, they are spread thin because
1. their project management (what to prioritize when) sucks
2. their team is mismanaged as hell (talent is being pulled off of 14 to work on other projects)
3. the teams workload is uncredibly off putting (work on FFXIV, work on 2 more games, work on patching FFXVI)
4. their project lead Yoshi-P is constantly being pulled off to other things (like supervising the mobile port)


Your list of content is also full of wrong deductions and stretched unnecessarily. Its almost as shameless as Yoshi-P's lies. Like man, come on.

- Casual players (alliance raids, MSQ, dungeons).
-> that's part of the regular scope of content, which already has been reduced for years to keep up with development times.

- People who want dungeons to have more variety (variant dungeons).
-> that's for the casuals too, so I am putting it up here instead. They were experimenting with new types of content (which is good), does not change what it was for.

- Midcore players that want grinds, relics, mounts and things like that (lots of mount grinds with hunts, FATEs, beast tribes, scrips, Extremes, Field Operations, etc)
-> that's straight up not true, lol. Mindless grinds is not midcore content. 5-Minute-a-Day Beast tribes are not midcore content. Fates are not midcore content. I could go on, but I won't. Others have debunked that in the thread already.
Field Operations is not even released yet.
Ex being midcore, okay, but those are still within the expected scope of the project. Those have also been changed, by the way, and incorporated in the MSQ instead of being an addition to it, to lessen development workload.

- Raiders (Savage and Ultimate).
-> and Chaotic, and Ex Trials, and Criterion
(yes, I am aware that they wanted chaotic to be on Ex Level, but they let Mr. Ozma do things to it. Yes, I know Ex is not on the same difficulty level as Savage, its still raid content.)

- People who want mythic+ (criterion).
-> see above. Criterion is not M+.

- People who enjoy BA and DRS large scale raiding (Chaos raids).
-> See above again.

Your list is sugarcoating at its finest.

[Jeeqbit]

that's straight up not true, lol. Mindless grinds is not midcore content. 5-Minute-a-Day Beast tribes are not midcore content. Fates are not midcore content. I could go on, but I won't. Others have debunked that in the thread already.

Not really. I am not saying it is midcore content by people's wishes in this thread. I am saying it is midcore content by the definition of who ACTUALLY does it.

If you simply look at the people who do this content, they are the same people you're gonna notice doing things like field ops. Because 5-minute a day beast tribes are timegating, forcing people not to be casual players that play for 3 days every patch then quit. Likewise, who does FATE farming? Certainly not the players that are gonna quit 3 days after the patch releases.

Obviously, those "midcore" players are hungry for something more, but they are finding a way to occupy themselves meanwhile such as beast tribes.

The line between the current casual and midcore is kind of thin though, because you actually have journalists now that are bored wanting more content after doing beast tribes. And that's because they discovered that even with their busy schedule they can get through this content. Nevertheless, many people's behaviour is simply to quit after doing MSQ/alliance/normal raids.

- Raiders (Savage and Ultimate).
-> and Chaotic, and Ex Trials, and Criterion
(yes, I am aware that they wanted chaotic to be on Ex Level, but they let Mr. Ozma do things to it. Yes, I know Ex is not on the same difficulty level as Savage, its still raid content.)

This misses my point because it's not strictly aimed at people who do Savage. Based on what they said about the raids in Field Ops, it's aimed more broadly than that, such as at people who like the larger scale raids like BA, DRS or WoW raids and dislike the small-scale raids we have.

- People who want mythic+ (criterion).
-> see above. Criterion is not M+.

It might not be. But the content was created after people cried out for M+ and 4-person raids for a few years. I never said they succeeded at making it M+. My point was this was their goal.

[ovIm]

Not really. I am not saying it is midcore content by people's wishes in this thread. I am saying it is midcore content by the definition of who ACTUALLY does it.

Incorrect, those things are more casual content than midcore content. One could maybe argue about fates, but beast tribes are definitely casual content. No time commitment, and an easy way to level alt classes.

If you simply look at the people who do this content, they are the same people you're gonna notice doing things like field ops. Because 5-minute a day beast tribes are timegating, forcing people not to be casual players that play for 3 days every patch then quit. Likewise, who does FATE farming? Certainly not the players that are gonna quit 3 days after the patch releases.

Obviously, those "midcore" players are hungry for something more, but they are finding a way to occupy themselves meanwhile such as beast tribes.

Now you are mudding definitions even more. Midcore is not exactly defined, and people flip flop around the definition anyhow, so huddling down and trying to redefine midcore is not helping you. Fact is, beast tribes require no real time commitment, and can be done within a month of regular subscription (the minimum amount). People not caring about them does not mean they aren't.

And just because you are entertained by fates, and hunt grinds, does not mean everything is.

This misses my point because it's not strictly aimed at people who do Savage. Based on what they said about the raids in Field Ops, it's aimed more broadly than that, such as at people who like the larger scale raids like BA, DRS or WoW raids and dislike the small-scale raids we have.

No, you are missing my point here - the fact that this is content aimed at raiders, no matter the difficulty level.

It might not be. But the content was created after people cried out for M+ and 4-person raids for a few years. I never said they succeeded at making it M+. My point was this was their goal.

Its raids for 4 people, because raids is all Square Enix can do nowadays.

[Jeeqbit]

Incorrect, those things are more casual content than midcore content. One could maybe argue about fates, but beast tribes are definitely casual content. No time commitment, and an easy way to level alt classes.

Missing my point. Casual players - as in, people who do not commit to playing every single day for weeks at a time, would be unable to do them due to time gating. So who does that leave to do them then? The answer is obviously the players who are logging in every single day but are bored ie. non-casual players.

Midcore is not exactly defined, and people flip flop around the definition anyhow, so huddling down and trying to redefine midcore is not helping you.

You're right. I normally define it differently. But for practicality I needed to find a way to properly measure the difference between them in a way that reflects who actually does the content. Clearly, the servers are filled to the brim on patch release day with people in cutscenes at the MSQ icons, but not all of them stay to go and do their daily beast tribes for weeks.

And if they do their daily beast tribes every single day for weeks, that is logging in consistently, so doesn't that make them a "midcore" player then? Because they are not playing casually.

[Collin_Sky]

You will never make the entire player base happy. Never ever.
The devs have created a situation where there is too much of a skill gap for everyone to be happy with any one piece of content.
You have turbo casuals who don't even know what half of their buttons do and uber hardcore who don't enjoy anything below savage difficulty.
The devs will never be able to create a piece of content that both of these groups will enjoy.

[Kaurhz]

The devs will never be able to create a piece of content that both of these groups will enjoy.

They can, and they have, they just make the really obtuse move of waiting a good year after the expansion for the content to actually come around.

[Collin_Sky]

They can, and they have, they just make the really obtuse move of waiting a good year after the expansion for the content to actually come around.

Name a single piece of content that is universally praised in this game.

[Kaurhz]

Name a single piece of content that is universally praised in this game.

Bozja was praised extensively by both casuals and hardcore players.

Casuals had something to grind, they had options behind their relic, and it offered a good money making method in addition to several desired items like mounts, minions and TT cards. Addressed the majority of issues people had with exploratory when it was Eureka. Had a friendly entry point and death wasn't as detrimental to the experience, nor was the whole 'elemental level' thing present, people liked this.

Raiders both midcore and hardcore praised it, it gave them a long-term goal for a weapon, it facilitated several large scale raids which they thought were appropriately designed. Released the first formal large-scale savage raid, which those doing savage liked quite a lot, eventually leading to many raiders requesting they release or work on savage alliance raids and large scale raids in the future. Also came with duels, which they complemented, granted the RNG factor of getting a duel wasn't the most well-liked decision. Also included lost actions and essences which elevated their gameplay. Critical Engagements were well received.

[CVXIV]

Bozja was praised extensively by both casuals and hardcore players.

Casuals had something to grind, they had options behind their relic, and it offered a good money making method in addition to several desired items like mounts, minions and TT cards. Addressed the majority of issues people had with exploratory when it was Eureka. Had a friendly entry point and death wasn't as detrimental to the experience, nor was the whole 'elemental level' thing present, people liked this.

Raiders both midcore and hardcore praised it, it gave them a long-term goal for a weapon, it facilitated several large scale raids which they thought were appropriately designed. Released the first formal large-scale savage raid, which those doing savage liked quite a lot, eventually leading to many raiders requesting they release or work on savage alliance raids and large scale raids in the future. Also came with duels, which they complemented, granted the RNG factor of getting a duel wasn't the most well-liked decision. Also included lost actions and essences which elevated their gameplay. Critical Engagements were well received.

I don't recall seeing a lot of praise for Bozja personally, but maybe that's just me

People hated the mettle grind and the fact that the relic was loosely tied into the content so they felt compelled to do it if they wanted that weapon