Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

[AllenThyl]

Man, why are you so angry? The constant insults and belittling makes people not take you seriously.

And which people should that be that I should care about? The ones in this thread who feel entitled to the hairstyle because ... it's a hairstyle? Or the ones that feel "disappointed" because it wasn't announced as such a difficult fight, despite this thread literally having dozens of examples from the past decade of announcement not even remotely matching what was actually delivered? SquareEnix is not anyone's friend, they are a business, the EA of Japan. The fact that people give them so much goodwill despite a track record of broken promises, instead of purely judging on what was being delivered, is shocking. Utterly, shocking. This kind of behavior is precisely what I mean with "video game addiction". There are people here stating that they haven't got any content for months and nothing to do, yet are still subscribed to this game non-stop. But somehow the notion of "if this service offers nothing of value to you, don't spend your money on it" is complete sacrilege. It's video game addiction, pure and simple. People are unhealthily invested in this video game. And they are powered, by an enabler community.

The Chaotic Alliance raid is hard content. It might get nerfed, it might not. More of the rewards might get unlocked for MB trade, they might not. The content might be unsynced later, it might not. At the moment, the situation is, what it is. It's hard content. Anyone who wants to have the rewards right now, will have to face the content the way it is now. This non-stop crying about spilled milk is nothing a functioning human adult who pays their own subscription to this very much not-essential-to-life-and-liberty product should be proud of.

[Kaurhz]

And which people should that be that I should care about? The ones in this thread who feel entitled to the hairstyle because ... it's a hairstyle? Or the ones that feel "disappointed" because it wasn't announced as such a difficult fight, despite this thread literally having dozens of examples from the past decade of announcement not even remotely matching what was actually delivered? SquareEnix is not anyone's friend, they are a business, the EA of Japan. The fact that people give them so much goodwill despite a track record of broken promises, instead of purely judging on what was being delivered, is shocking. Utterly, shocking. This kind of behavior is precisely what I mean with "video game addiction". There are people here stating that they haven't got any content for months and nothing to do, yet are still subscribed to this game non-stop. But somehow the notion of "if this service offers nothing of value to you, don't spend your money on it" is complete sacrilege. It's video game addiction, pure and simple. People are unhealthily invested in this video game. And they are powered, by an enabler community.

The Chaotic Alliance raid is hard content. It might get nerfed, it might not. More of the rewards might get unlocked for MB trade, they might not. The content might be unsynced later, it might not. At the moment, the situation is, what it is. It's hard content. Anyone who wants to have the rewards right now, will have to face the content the way it is now. This non-stop crying about spilled milk is nothing a functioning human adult who pays their own subscription to this very much not-essential-to-life-and-liberty product should be proud of.

I find it just as shocking that it hasn't crossed your mind that many people are simply still subscribed to this game because many people still have friends that actively play this game. But instead elected to go for the armchair psychologist approach of diagnosing people on a forum with video game addiction.

I probably wouldn't talk about utterly shocking with this in mind, if I were you, lol.

[LibitIncarne]

Also, why the hell did someone bring up child predators? Like are you guys ok?

you're the person who's bringing up child predators, i just mentioned the fact that basically every month a high-end raider gets exposed for sexual harassment of staticmates and/or every woman that somehow ends up around him

[Fuyuqi]

If a piece of content can still be cleared when several people keep messing up again and again, failing major mechanics and positioning, what exactly would be "difficult" about it? How precisely would a "difficult" fight look without mechanics that require basically everyone to solve them correctly?

There are tons of ways to make content more difficult without needing to use body checks and still have it not be able to be cleared with people having no clue what they're doing. Like in P8S where a failed snake mechanic may not wipe the entire party but would result in damage downs that would make the DPS check impossible. Why not design mechanics in a way that allow for recovery or seeing further mechs (allowing for practice and then clean-up later) instead of making them overly punishing in content that isn't intended to be savage-tier difficulty? If people want genuine punishing fights that require full coordination, there's always Ultimate raids.

Of course I can't speak for every raider, but I expected the difficulty from chaotic to be from a faster paced fight, more complex mechanics that take more steps to solve, damage that actually requires mitigation, and a dps check so people can't just crawl over the finish line after 3 near-wipes. Literally an alliance raid boss fight, but harder. Body checks are only one form of adding difficulty.

[Fuyuqi]

you're the person who's bringing up child predators, i just mentioned the fact that basically every month a high-end raider gets exposed for sexual harassment of staticmates and/or every woman that somehow ends up around him

What does that have to do with the fight or reward design of cloud of darkness (chaotic)

[Fuyuqi]

The Chaotic Alliance raid is hard content. It might get nerfed, it might not. More of the rewards might get unlocked for MB trade, they might not. The content might be unsynced later, it might not. At the moment, the situation is, what it is. It's hard content. Anyone who wants to have the rewards right now, will have to face the content the way it is now. This non-stop crying about spilled milk is nothing a functioning human adult who pays their own subscription to this very much not-essential-to-life-and-liberty product should be proud of.

From what I can tell, you don't even have the achievement for clearing the fight. I'd appreciate it if you didn't derail my thread with elitism and telling people to stop complaining about the difficulty and go to the other threads already complaining about the fight difficulty. At the end of the day, this pattern of awful reward design and misunderstanding of what players across the board want is bad for the long-term health of the game and I want Square to do better for its players. I want as many people as possible to find this game fulfilling enough to continue to be active so that I can have a lively community to play with in the game I enjoy the most, and I'd like to hope most other people feel the same way.

[ovIm]

I want as many people as possible to find this game fulfilling enough to continue to be active so that I can have a lively community to play with in the game I enjoy the most, and I'd like to hope most other people feel the same way.

This is pretty much the best kind of MMO sentiment right there. A big, happy, engaged population will never be bad for a games health.
And in that regard, CS3 is doing this game an incredible disservice. It's damn sad. In your threadstarter, you said something very true:

Square seems insistent on creating content designed for a shallow grave instead of content that will continue to be lively long-term

CS3 seems to generally struggle with making content long lived. Almost everything they build has a, often rather short, shelf life, and the players of this game deserve better for their money.

[CamuiKushi]

If it were instead 3 or so bosses that were 4 minutes long similar to a normal alliance raid, they would only have to get past the first few minutes ONCE to repeatedly practice the part they want to. Why would they leave when they'd just have to suffer getting past the first 3 minutes all over again?

This is what I hoped the chaotic alliances would be. It sounds like the way it is now is the same kind of frustrations I end up having with savage: I want to actually make progress and not die to a mechanic I have down perfectly because it's a body check.

[Router]

I do not understand why they ignored their own wisdom when designing BA and DRS. Both of those raids had minimal body checks overall (and most encounters had zero) and punished deaths by mainly making the dps checks harder. DRS in particular was ran as a 24 man before they even added 24 man scaling, so you theoretically could have half of the entire alliance die and be fine as long as the VIP players survived. I don't even know what the minimum number of players needed to clear BA is nowadays but there's been confirmed clears with 12 man groups (EDIT: just checked, there's been an 8 man clear). If you're psychotic you could MAYBE run Chaotic with 20ish people but some of the mechanics would start breaking down if you did that (like feint particle beam appearing on the side platforms and obviously towers exploding). It's moronic. If they're so concerned about raise cheesing then bring back limited raises like what criterion had, it's already been shown to work fine.

[Fuyuqi]

I do not understand why they ignored their own wisdom when designing BA and DRS. Both of those raids had minimal body checks overall (and most encounters had zero) and punished deaths by mainly making the dps checks harder. DRS in particular was ran as a 24 man before they even added 24 man scaling, so you theoretically could have half of the entire alliance die and be fine as long as the VIP players survived. I don't even know what the minimum number of players needed to clear BA is nowadays but there's been confirmed clears with 12 man groups (EDIT: just checked, there's been an 8 man clear). If you're psychotic you could MAYBE run Chaotic with 20ish people but some of the mechanics would start breaking down if you did that (like feint particle beam appearing on the side platforms and obviously towers exploding). It's moronic. If they're so concerned about raise cheesing then bring back limited raises like what criterion had, it's already been shown to work fine.

I was actually just chatting about this with some friends about this exact thing but I think they got scared of tight dps checks after what happened in P8S. Which is why they're generally creating easier dps checks with more instant wipe mechanics (P10S towers, M4S sunrise sabbath, COD). There are ofc exceptions to this since M1-M3 and FRU seem to be more recoverable than say, TOP, but I think it's still a valid theory. I think it's definitely a step in the wrong direction, especially in content like chaotic.
And yeah, I've done DRS a couple times in EW and didn't always have a full party but still made it through and being able to do that seems to be the main reason that content is still able to be run today, so it's a shame how they decided to implement COD.