Don't do chaotic raid again

[Gullis]

This content is meant to be a stepping stone in difficulty. You can't just jump straight to Chaotic as a casual 'who doesn't even do Extreme' and expect for you or anyone else in the raid to have a good time. You are doing yourself and everyone else a disservice.

Casual > Extreme > Chaotic > Savage > Ultimate.

People should already have to have cleared the previous step in difficulty to do this piece of content. Which would be Extreme clears.

Again. Gatekeeping sucks, but 'some' amount of gatekeeping is not bad either.

I don't see why anyone new to raiding would do this over just doing m1s

[Lilapop]

I don't see why anyone new to raiding would do this over just doing m1s

Many reasons? Some people like raids with more bodies? (DRS, DLL, DR, Castrum, BA, Alliance Raids etc.) for one.

[Collin_Sky]

Many reasons? Some people like raids with more bodies? (DRS, DLL, DR, Castrum, BA, Alliance Raids etc.) for one.

If someone has no experience in Savage (or even Extreme) then they have no place doing Chaotic. They are simply not skilled/used to content of that level and will be forcing 23 other people to suffer wipe upon wipe because of them.
Chaotic is absolutely not "my first difficult content". Content with this many people demands consistency.

[Lilapop]

If someone has no experience in Savage (or even Extreme) then they have no place doing Chaotic. They are simply not skilled/used to content of that level and will be forcing 23 other people to suffer wipe upon wipe because of them.
Chaotic is absolutely not "my first difficult content". Content with this many people demands consistency.

Again, that begs the question, who is this content for? It was very much obviously designed to get new people interested in jumping right in with all those rewards thrown into it.

[Collin_Sky]

who is this content for?

People like Arthars who went to every single fanfest across the globe and begged Yoshi P for it every single time he met him.

The devs tried to advertise this as a gateway content for casuals to get into hardcore content, and that is absolutely not the reality we got. If casuals aren't already doing extremes (which is easier than this) they aren't going to do this, and those that are, are just ruining it for everyone. It's been very obvious while progging and clearing this in PF over the past 2 days, who was used to content of this level and who wasn't.
The issue is, content of this scale demands that you are a consistent player. PF is barely consistent enough for 8 man savage fights, put 24 of them together, and you're going to guarantee that one or two people per pull will mess up and snowball into a wipe.

[Lilapop]

People like Arthars who went to every single fanfest across the globe and begged Yoshi P for it every single time he met him.

The devs tried to advertise this as a gateway content for casuals to get into hardcore content, and that is absolutely not the reality we got. If casuals aren't already doing extremes (which is easier than this) they aren't going to do this, and those that are, are just ruining it for everyone. It's been very obvious while progging and clearing this in PF over the past 2 days, who was used to content of this level and who wasn't.
The issue is, content of this scale demands that you are a consistent player. PF is barely consistent enough for 8 man savage fights, put 24 of them together, and you're going to guarantee that one or two people per pull will mess up and snowball into a wipe.

This content basically is added to the pile of Savage tier raids current tier raiders already got this expansion, at the end of the day. Just with more desirable rewards.

[Collin_Sky]

This content basically is added to the pile of Savage tier raids current tier raiders already got this expansion, at the end of the day. Just with more desirable rewards.

This is where we disagree. I'm absolutely okay with more Savage level content. I loved criterion, for example. I just don't think the playerbase is consistent enough for 24 man content. If criterion had gotten rewards of this scale (instead of basically nothing) it would have been a much bigger success.
I wish the dev time went into more criterion than this Chaotic fight. It was longer and the fights were actually more engaging.