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  1. #11
    Player
    Kaurhz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,615
    Character
    Asuka Kirai
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by AllenThyl View Post
    Yes, of course, for people who have spent thousands of hours in a game learning absolutely nothing along the way and making no conscious effort to improve, everything above "dodge this 3 second telegraphed AoE" will feel like an insurmountable challenge. If the only measure of "success" one had during all that time was "clearing one way or another, even if dead on the floor for 80% of the fight", that's the player's own fault. Even normal content has lots of different mechanics that can be learned if anyone actually wants to learn. However, experience tell, that just dividing up into the alliance groups and having 4 people stand on the Atomos platform is too much to ask of players with triple digit clears of this dungeon.

    A significant portion of the playerbase has used the fact that the normal content is tuned to be forgiving, as an excuse to not learn any mechanics ever. Alexander raids regularly wipe groups because expecting to learn which platform to pull the adds to, or when to turn into a gorilla, or how to freeze a tornado, is toxic elitism. Aetherochemical Research Facitilty features a 2 person enumeration tower. But why learn that, when you could just let the person explode? With current gear scaling most will survive with a sliver of health, or can be rezzed otherwise. Even dead healers are no problems, tanks at that level can solo. And since "completion" is the only quality measure, there is no difference. Same for the Eden raids, just let the enumerations explode, sacrifice some dps instead of soaking their tether. Just heal and rezz through it, never learn.
    Whilst I can agree somewhat, I actually think the problem is more on the developers than it is on the players, if failing a mechanic is in many cases inconsequential then players simply aren't going to notice in many cases whether they are doing well or not, and there are far more instances in normal content where it is inconsequential than it is consequential, and more often than not the latter is in older, less modern content, and with the volume of instances, you're only going to encounter these mechanics a handful of times. Since playing this game I've perhaps had Fist of the Son 2-3 times, and much of the execution is only going to come with repetitive practice, something that people doing it on-content had the luxury of, and something players doing it a decade later don't really. There's a small handful of mechanics which are consistent, e.g., tethers or stack markers, but a lot of instances can also have gimmick-y mechanics which are almost always exclusive to that specific instance, e.g., A5N, or are only done a handful of times across the many many instances the game now has.

    I've had plenty of casual friends that started mid-Endwalker, and didn't learn as much in those several months as to what they did when doing Dawntrail on-content for a meager 3 weeks, simply because they were only getting most of those duties a handful of times, so I think it is less about being conscious of learning and more being put in the position where it actually matters, and in duties where they can, even on an individual level, e.g., vulnerability debuff, I've seen players just laugh at it, pop a bloodbath and then plunge it into irrelevancy. If the incoming damage on the person isn't consequential then bad habits develop, and this is where the problem is on the devs because they are facilitating bad habits to occur.

    Even those that are conscious of learning, most of that is only by luxury of doing it on-patch where there's gear rewards used as actual progression to incentivize them going in more than once or twice, like, most people aren't going to go "Man, perhaps I should go do that 1 Alexander turn again so I can make sure I understand that 1 mechanic which someone else did with the monkey.
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    Last edited by Kaurhz; 12-26-2024 at 06:01 AM.