Don't do chaotic raid again

[Bonoki]

Totally agree with that, my previous comment was about how SE seem to be obsessed with completion rates, and puting a haircut in a savage lvl raid is only there to try to funnel more players in the content to boost their completion rate, despite the fact you don't make a casual player into a raider magically.

My perspective isn’t that the hairstyle is bait for casuals—it feels more like bait for hardcore raiders. The way the bonuses are structured seems designed to encourage experienced players to help new players clear rather than gatekeeping them. Likely, SE wants to foster cooperation between different skill levels. And for those who are inexperienced or struggle with the challenge, the option to buy the hairstyle acts as a fallback, ensuring they’re not entirely excluded from some of the rewards. Having raiders assist new players is tied to the aspect of completion rates.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

There’s absolutely no issue with introducing challenging 24-man content.
The problem is that it targets a minority of players, meaning it will quickly die off, and there’s no alternative.
If there were a version of the fight designed to cater to a broader majority of players, it would be a different story.

The issue is that they don’t provide content with a medium level of challenge.
It’s either too easy, or it’s extreme or savage, and they know very well that this type of content doesn’t work. Be it criterion dungeons or similar content, it has never worked and never will.

So why not adapt content to have a version accessible to a broader majority of players instead of once again creating niche content? Especially when the game has been experiencing a drought of content with good replayability and casual++ appeal since Endwalker.

Another issue is that there rewards most of casual players want aka the new hairstyle. Why lock glam items and hairstyles behind content that is for minority of players and will die off very quicky. I think the gear and the mount you get from the 24 man savage is enough of reward for those who want to do it...I don't see why the hairstyle is even in there.

[Menriq]

There’s absolutely no issue with introducing challenging 24-man content.
The problem is that it targets a minority of players, meaning it will quickly die off, and there’s no alternative.
If there were a version of the fight designed to cater to a broader majority of players, it would be a different story.

The issue is that they don’t provide content with a medium level of challenge.
It’s either too easy, or it’s extreme or savage, and they know very well that this type of content doesn’t work. Be it criterion dungeons or similar content, it has never worked and never will.

So why not adapt content to have a version accessible to a broader majority of players instead of once again creating niche content? Especially when the game has been experiencing a drought of content with good replayability and casual++ appeal since Endwalker.

The problem here is everyone's definition of challenging is different. Some might say Savage is medium level. Others might say EX is medium level. It will always be subjective in that nature.

[caffe_macchiato]

So I’ve heard that a LOT of people are unhappy with the player base for not being able to clear. What causes those people that you hate to play the game? I agree that Square Enix lacks focus. Do you think the story roped in too many casuals? If so, then what would you say to critics who dislike the story? Because the moment people criticize the game, you will get defensive even if you ought to agree with them. Choose one: do you want a good MSQ, or do you want your raids to be cleansed of casuals? Remember that there is no bridge between the MSQ and hardcore content, especially considering that Chaotic is “midcore”. WoW has (had?) a bad MSQ and that filtered a lot of undesirables. Contemplate this before you rage in your reply.

Additionally, considering that Chaotic is optimal “midcore” content: what do you think of the time you spent first playing the game? Do you resent it? Because none of that content is what actually pulled you or most players in. FFXIV, unlike WoW, lets you enjoy more casual and simple content via the MSQ. Yet today, you want nothing but “midcore” content (savage and chaotic). What if FFXIV was like WoW where you skipped all the cutscenes and went straight to the end for your quintessential gameplay content? Would you like that? If so, why do you resent your time playing FFXIV so much?

[Kaurhz]

Another issue is that there rewards most of casual players want aka the new hairstyle. Why lock glam items and hairstyles behind content that is for minority of players and will die off very quicky. I think the gear and the mount you get from the 24 man savage is enough of reward for those who want to do it...I don't see why the hairstyle is even in there.

IMO,

I think this decision stems from the criticisms that people threw at V&C dungeons. Granted, different content, but the problem can still carry over, so I think they've just wanted to throw everything inc., the kitchen sink at it to try and incentivize completion rates.

I think cosmetic related rewards exclusively in upper content is generally a bad move because you end up over-incentivizing, which just attracts a lot of players that aren't necessarily following a natural course of progression. You end up with a mix of people that want the reward, but aren't necessarily prepared, mixed in with people that may want it, and are prepared, or are just there for a challenge, and this issue is just exacerbated so much when there's 24 people to account for.

[CNitsah]

So, I went to check this thread on the japanese forum to check what was their opinion (with google trad, but that's enough to get the gist of it), and the main critics seems to be the following ones :

- harder than that was annouced and asked by players : a difficulty on par with BA and DRS, but it's above those. A couple of post even consider it harder than savage.
- Too hard for midcore, and ask to reunite too many players for strategy group. They're not sur who this is aimed for : content will probably die when 7.2 drops
- puting the haircut there is wrong, it's something everyone wants and should not be gated behind savage content. Put in relation with the fact it's thought to dies pretty fast, making the haircut cost A LOT.

[ViinaS]

IMO,

I think this decision stems from the criticisms that people threw at V&C dungeons. Granted, different content, but the problem can still carry over, so I think they've just wanted to throw everything inc., the kitchen sink at it to try and incentivize completion rates.

I think cosmetic related rewards exclusively in upper content is generally a bad move because you end up over-incentivizing, which just attracts a lot of players that aren't necessarily following a natural course of progression. You end up with a mix of people that want the reward, but aren't necessarily prepared, mixed in with people that may want it, and are prepared, or are just there for a challenge, and this issue is just exacerbated so much when there's 24 people to account for.

And that's the major issue imo.
This content rewards a desireable mount, desireable glam, hats that actually work on Viera and a desireable hairstyle.
All that after a drought in all those categories, cause lets be honest, the AlliRaid gear is only pleasant to look at and exciting for FFXI fans. At least to me it's super boring.

Yet all those things that attract many people, casuals too, are locked behind something harder than savage (due to 24 people needing to sign up, go in, stay for prog, content being harder than EX and not fck up / be managed).
Meanwhile V&C dungeon rewards were easy to prog towards, due to 4 people, but so lackluster that many people didn't do them.
I still don't have a single exquisite Weapon except my first one due to that.

So yeah. I fully expect Chaotic to tank hard, be relegated to Discord-only group finding and people being angry those rewards are very unaccessible to most.
And all that after the worst content drought we have seen in a very long time... and the first one immedietaly after an expansion launch.

[Infindox]

First, you don't even have to say anything IF you are even getting on a voiced discord channel. The discords are for recruitment purposes of the content, not necessarily for voice comms itself when we are referring to BA DR and other such content.

Also, the issue isn't that someone has a social anxiety of any sort. It's that going from "This is Dying/Dead content -> "Well Recruit via Discord" -> "But my social anxiety" Is an overused excuse with XIV players. If you are so adverse to community driven content and goals, while having crippling social anxiety, than you shouldn't be complaining about the content you seemingly CANT do regardless. Clearly you don't want those drops enough then.

You can do content without ever setting foot inside a server. Well, you *should* be able to do that, anyway.
There's a difference between interacting with people in game and interacting in a server, and some people just don't like doing that. It should not be a factor that keeps them from doing content.

[Kaurhz]

So, I went to chack this thread on the japanese forum to check what was their opinion (with google trad, but that's enough to get the gist of it), and it seems the main critics seems to be the following ones :

- harder than that was annouced and asked by players : a difficulty on par with BA and DRS, but it's above those.
- Too hard for midcore, and ask to reunite too many players for strategy group. They're not sur who this is aimed for : content will probably die when 7.2 drops
- puting the haircut there is wrong, it's something everyone wants and should not be gated behind savage content. Put in relation with the fact it's thought to dies pretty fast, making the haircut cost A LOT.

I think part of the issue is that people asked for a 24-man difficult alliance raid and what they got in turn was a 24-man trial, so then everything is condensed into a single encounter, rather than across several different encounters (which is what an alliance raid is).

[Absurdity]

My perspective isn’t that the hairstyle is bait for casuals—it feels more like bait for hardcore raiders. The way the bonuses are structured seems designed to encourage experienced players to help new players clear rather than gatekeeping them. Likely, SE wants to foster cooperation between different skill levels. And for those who are inexperienced or struggle with the challenge, the option to buy the hairstyle acts as a fallback, ensuring they’re not entirely excluded from some of the rewards. Having raiders assist new players is tied to the aspect of completion rates.

Even the "first time" bonus will be scoffed at when said hardcore players can just farm during "bonus time" and never have to carry anyone they don't want to.

The problem is that "carrying" players isn't a thing when the fight has body check mechanics.
Sure you can teach people but executing the mechanic correctly is still entirely up to them.

So when you have someone who is struggling with a mechanic, and said mechanic needs everyone to be alive and do it correctly or you wipe, there is nothing you can do to actually help the party succeed.

This is also why I absolutely loathe their approach of removing all difficulty from job gameplay and putting it entirely into fight mechanic execution, because now you have a singular failure point.
But that discussion has been going on for like 5 years now.