Don't do chaotic raid again

[Kaurhz]

I honestly cannot wait until we have this very same discussion but the other way around, when BIS gear will be locked behind cosmic exploration or whatever the hell it was.
Oh it will be glorious.

(probably wont happen but you all gotta admit it would be funny as hell)

Also, didn YoshiP told us, that discord is technically a 3rd party program? And people straight up making it a requirement for runs and advertising it on the forums? D:

On a serious note tho, genuinely believe that this content will be dead by mid january at best. Such wasted dev time.

To be honest people have been doing this for years. I didn't very much like his view of what a third-party program is, it feels like he took it far, far too literally instead of trying to actually look at the spirit of the issue. But alas he's the producer and director so...

I don't think it's wasted dev time, but like 90% of things they implement in this game.. It's half-done. Chaotic should've had 2 tiers behind it really as opposed to the singular, that way you're still introducing people to that content instead of throwing them straight in and then the community coming up with their own rules. - If it isn't 1 thing with this team then it's another.

[AyumiCosplayGlam]

To be honest people have been doing this for years. I didn't very much like his view of what a third-party program is, it feels like he took it far, far too literally instead of trying to actually look at the spirit of the issue. But alas he's the producer and director so...

I don't think it's wasted dev time, but like 90% of things they implement in this game.. It's half-done. Chaotic should've had 2 tiers behind it really as opposed to the singular, that way you're still introducing people to that content instead of throwing them straight in and then the community coming up with their own rules. - If it isn't 1 thing with this team then it's another.

I know, his take was pretty much bs.

Not a waste of dev time?
Tell me, is it not a waste of time and resource to set up a McDonalds in the middle of the desert with no civilization in a 500km radius?Its not a bad thing to have, just the timing and place make it a waste to set up.

Same can be applied to chaotic, its not a bad thing that we have it inherently, its just that niche content like this should be only focused on when the masses are satisfied to some degree, that has not happened since yawntrail release and sure as hell wont happen until around March-May.

When they saw the reception of Yawntrail, they should have been dropping everything that can be categorized as luxuries and start working all hands on deck to course correct.
Its not hard to rebalance all alliance raids for max level on a fixed item level for example and give us a roulette for it with some totems as rewards that can be exchanged for shinies.

No joke, i could probably do it within a week without any help, once i have an optimal hp/damage output for a boss, 80% of the work is done, the rest is just minibosses and mobs.
And guess what, rebalancing all those raids are only "hard to do" only once/expansion, once you have it you are done until the next level cap.
Its not rocket science to create content that the majority of our playerbase can interact with.
But for some reason rebalancing outdated content for max level is restricted to 1 extreme trial in every 4 months which is rotated out, why exactly?
Why cant we have normal old content rebalanced for max level so we can use all our skills in more content?

Even if they cannot do bandaid course correction like this fast enough for whatever reason, its still better to delay the chaotic by a few weeks and putting out fires anywhere you can, rather than pour some gasoline on it by making it as the only content for 4 months and asking people to hang on.

[Kaurhz]

I know, his take was pretty much bs.

Not a waste of dev time?
Tell me, is it not a waste of time and resource to set up a McDonalds in the middle of the desert with no civilization in a 500km radius?Its not a bad thing to have, just the timing and place make it a waste to set up.

Same can be applied to chaotic, its not a bad thing that we have it inherently, its just that niche content like this should be only focused on when the masses are satisfied to some degree, that has not happened since yawntrail release and sure as hell wont happen until around March-May.

When they saw the reception of Yawntrail, they should have been dropping everything that can be categorized as luxuries and start working all hands on deck to course correct.
Its not hard to rebalance all alliance raids for max level on a fixed item level for example and give us a roulette for it with some totems as rewards that can be exchanged for shinies.

No joke, i could probably do it within a week without any help, once i have an optimal hp/damage output for a boss, 80% of the work is done, the rest is just minibosses and mobs.
And guess what, rebalancing all those raids are only "hard to do" only once/expansion, once you have it you are done until the next level cap.
Its not rocket science to create content that the majority of our playerbase can interact with.
But for some reason rebalancing outdated content for max level is restricted to 1 extreme trial in every 4 months which is rotated out, why exactly?
Why cant we have normal old content rebalanced for max level so we can use all our skills in more content?

Even if they cannot do bandaid course correction like this fast enough for whatever reason, its still better to delay the chaotic by a few weeks and putting out fires anywhere you can, rather than pour some gasoline on it by making it as the only content for 4 months and asking people to hang on.

To be honest, these two aren't even equivalent, there is still a good number of the raiding population that will do it and then those that don't raid will still participate, it's just the case that within the game there is no real facilitation to organize for large scale content, so it ends up being relegated to Discord to support long-term. Party Finder is created for content that needs to be done there and then, as opposed to being scheduled in advance. The problem is just that this content like everything else developed in recent history is that it is following the mantra of being half-baked. If they released an in-between tier for Chaotic itself then it would probably be a lot better, or at the very least if the raid was actually a raid and just not a trial, since everything in that fight could then be more evenly distributed across multiple bosses as opposed to just one boss.

I can agree on some points, e.g., rebalancing older alliance raids. I don't think it's inherently bad they've created it, they just don't have the facilities in-game to actually have pragmatic long term support for duty completion with large scale content. It's only a bad thing when a solution hasn't been properly thought out, e.g., giving a glorified trial rather than an actual alliance raid. - and if I am honest this issue persists across a lot more content than just chaotic for example. Orthos suffers with the same issue, as did Island Sanctuary.

[MisterNublet]

On a serious note tho, genuinely believe that this content will be dead by mid january at best. Such wasted dev time.

Dead in PF, "alive" in discord like how BA and DRS are.

Also, not really much of a waste of dev resources since everything in the fight is reused models and mechanics. Probably took an intern a whole weekend to throw together.

[Lilapop]

I honestly cannot wait until we have this very same discussion but the other way around, when BIS gear will be locked behind cosmic exploration or whatever the hell it was.
Oh it will be glorious.

(probably wont happen but you all gotta admit it would be funny as hell)

Also, didn YoshiP told us, that discord is technically a 3rd party program? And people straight up making it a requirement for runs and advertising it on the forums? D:

On a serious note tho, genuinely believe that this content will be dead by mid january at best. Such wasted dev time.

No, no. You're misunderstanding surely! THAT one third party program is approved by the community!!!

[Infindox]

Sadly, when you join a pf group in this game, people will very often just stay silent, put markers down to form LP, partners and such and then start pulling. If the group wipes, they pull again and again leaving no time to explain anything in between pulls, leading to the same mistakes being made over and over until people start leaving (there is no point to stay in such conditions…the only option is to find a better group and it’s the pf waiting game with the risk of finding another similar group). Some mistakes would be easy to fix with a minimum of communication and progress would be faster.

I should say I'm fine if you join a PF and they ask "can you hop on this server? We want to discuss strategies". That's more then fair. (Not always ideal with people who don't like being in places like that but I get it) But having to go to servers to find players that will run content otherwise you're SOL is not great.

[Voidmage]

This content basically is added to the pile of Savage tier raids current tier raiders already got this expansion, at the end of the day. Just with more desirable rewards.

It’s just collecting browny points with content creators like Xenos and Arthas imo who only care about endgame raiding.
They will praise it as the bestest thing ever, throw in a “a bit too easy for my taste” and “this is the content this game needed” while not caring or knowing how PF really works because they are in their streamer bubble.

Yoshida will be proud of it because the streamers praise it and sell it as a success with maybe a “there are also people who found it too hard but please just give it a try” and “we will continue to implement such content further in the future” as usual if at all acknowledging feedback.


Just wait till field operations are an afterthought in design (I wouldn’t even be surprised if we don’t even get a raid in there this time because of chaotic) and rewards (have a mount, old extreme weapons and maybe a hairstyle that they found in a dumpster like Eureka Orthos one, cosmic exploration will be Ishgard copy paste.
Oh and the next criterion will again just be numbingly easy, savage hard and soul crushing in difficulty.

That’s my prediction when I think how much dev time was probably put into this here.
I like the raid but it’s pretty clear they put lots of work into designing this.

[Aco505]

Disagree. Chaotic is quite fun. The main issue is that P2 is a puzzle with body checks compared to P1 so it's harder for the more casual/midcore audience. Current strats (in EU at least) don't make recovery easy either.

[Ravennes]

Disagree. Chaotic is quite fun. The main issue is that P2 is a puzzle with body checks compared to P1 so it's harder for the more casual/midcore audience. Current strats (in EU at least) don't make recovery easy either.

Strats currently are impossible to recover, as you'll just get revived somewhere els
if anyone important dies before tower > Wipe
anyone dies after > recoverable
if anyone dies during looming > immediately Lb3 and pray atleast a few towers get soaked to not wipe

... not really a fan of this xD

[Aco505]

Strats currently are impossible to recover, as you'll just get revived somewhere els
if anyone important dies before tower > Wipe
anyone dies after > recoverable
if anyone dies during looming > immediately Lb3 and pray atleast a few towers get soaked to not wipe

... not really a fan of this xD

Towers are the biggest wall. Having only one healer outside makes recovering difficult unless you have RDM/SMNs because those inside cannot go out but those out can go in, which is why the 3H on the outside platforms strat is probably the overall best, even though no strat is perfect right now.