Don't do chaotic raid again

[RulerOfPotaoes]

PF is currently flooded with players who don't even do Extremes. So I feel like maybe the unlock should be locked behind EX3.

On one hand im glad that the raid is accessible to everyone. But on the other hand, its clear that more casual players are holding back the midcore players.

At least for this occasion I do believe they should tweak some things like 'adding 2-3 extra seconds the Doom counter and some casts like Blade of Darkness.

[AllenThyl]

PF is currently flooded with players who don't even do Extremes. So I feel like maybe the unlock should be locked behind EX3.

The raid is unlocked by speaking to the Wandering Minstrel (where all other Extremes are unlocked as well), and it's part of the "High-end Duty" category. The fact that the community behaves entitled like that is nothing that could ever be fixed by any game design. The sad reality is, that it really isn't that different from "normal" PF experience. It's an attitude problem of the "Western" part of the community, where being able to clear a mechanic 3 out of 4 times (unless of course it's the "cursed" pattern, which happens half the time), is regarded as "I have mastered this mechanic". This kind of behavior is already a problem in 8 man content, it's simply aggravated with 3 times that player count.

[Absurdity]

It's an attitude problem of the "Western" part of the community, where being able to clear a mechanic 3 out of 4 times (unless of course it's the "cursed" pattern, which happens half the time), is regarded as "I have mastered this mechanic". This kind of behavior is already a problem in 8 man content, it's simply aggravated with 3 times that player count.

The amount of "prog lying" certainly has gotten worse over the years.

We were half a static, 2 tanks 2 healers, and had to pug all the DPS in PF this raid tier. Cleared up to M4S in about 2 months, but it took us an extra 2 months to clear M4S because
1. Parties just wouldn't fill for hours, we had raid nights where we sat in PF for 2 hours just to fill the last dps spot. (with only 2 raid nights of 3-4 hours a week this was already bad enough)
2. People were flat out joining for mechanics way further than they had seen and sandbagged everyone else, I stopped counting the amount of times our phase 2 prog turned into EE2 prog because people lied about getting to phase 2.

[NaoSen]

Social anxiety's existence, while it does suck, is no reason not to include an entirely new form of content or alter it.

[yesnt]

Social anxiety's existence, while it does suck, is no reason not to include an entirely new form of content or alter it.

Why not? I mean other than that you don't need it or want it? People have been asking for midcore content forever.
You know... YOU don't have to play the midcore content if it's not for you.

[NaoSen]

Why not? I mean other than that you don't need it or want it? People have been asking for midcore content forever.
You know... YOU don't have to play the midcore content if it's not for you.

Actually, midcore content is the content I want the most, I don't savage raid, I don't do ultimate's, I'm going to give chaotic a go, but there's no reason people should not have chaotic savage because it may require listening on VC for some people.

[Bonoki]

Isn't it ironic? We asked for more challenging 24-man content for years, and now that SE has delivered, people are complaining that it’s not accessible enough for casual players. This feels like moving the goalposts—if we want challenging content, it can’t always cater to everyone. Isn’t the whole point of asking for difficulty to push ourselves beyond the usual? And yet, we wonder why the game is constantly dumbed down.

[remiff]

Isn't it ironic? We asked for more challenging 24-man content for years, and now that SE has delivered, people are complaining that it’s not accessible enough for casual players. This feels like moving the goalposts—if we want challenging content, it can’t always cater to everyone. Isn’t the whole point of asking for difficulty to push ourselves beyond the usual? And yet, we wonder why the game is constantly dumbed down.

There’s absolutely no issue with introducing challenging 24-man content.
The problem is that it targets a minority of players, meaning it will quickly die off, and there’s no alternative.
If there were a version of the fight designed to cater to a broader majority of players, it would be a different story.

The issue is that they don’t provide content with a medium level of challenge.
It’s either too easy, or it’s extreme or savage, and they know very well that this type of content doesn’t work. Be it criterion dungeons or similar content, it has never worked and never will.

So why not adapt content to have a version accessible to a broader majority of players instead of once again creating niche content? Especially when the game has been experiencing a drought of content with good replayability and casual++ appeal since Endwalker.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

There’s absolutely no issue with introducing challenging 24-man content.
The problem is that it targets a minority of players, meaning it will quickly die off, and there’s no alternative.
If there were a version of the fight designed to cater to a broader majority of players, it would be a different story.

The issue is that they don’t provide content with a medium level of challenge.
It’s either too easy, or it’s extreme or savage, and they know very well that this type of content doesn’t work. Be it criterion dungeons or similar content, it has never worked and never will.

So why not adapt content to have a version accessible to a broader majority of players instead of once again creating niche content? Especially when the game has been experiencing a drought of content with good replayability and casual++ appeal since Endwalker.

Another issue is that there rewards most of casual players want aka the new hairstyle. Why lock glam items and hairstyles behind content that is for minority of players and will die off very quicky. I think the gear and the mount you get from the 24 man savage is enough of reward for those who want to do it...I don't see why the hairstyle is even in there.

[Kaurhz]

Another issue is that there rewards most of casual players want aka the new hairstyle. Why lock glam items and hairstyles behind content that is for minority of players and will die off very quicky. I think the gear and the mount you get from the 24 man savage is enough of reward for those who want to do it...I don't see why the hairstyle is even in there.

IMO,

I think this decision stems from the criticisms that people threw at V&C dungeons. Granted, different content, but the problem can still carry over, so I think they've just wanted to throw everything inc., the kitchen sink at it to try and incentivize completion rates.

I think cosmetic related rewards exclusively in upper content is generally a bad move because you end up over-incentivizing, which just attracts a lot of players that aren't necessarily following a natural course of progression. You end up with a mix of people that want the reward, but aren't necessarily prepared, mixed in with people that may want it, and are prepared, or are just there for a challenge, and this issue is just exacerbated so much when there's 24 people to account for.