What jobs actually need Raid Buffs?

[Azurarok]

I've been beginning to wonder why we even have raid buffs at this point. There's no real strategy to using them since they've devolved into yet another button to press for the 2 minute burst.

Them having different timings and CH/DH buffs doing nothing for moves that guarantee them used to require a little more thought into when some jobs should be using theirs. It's sounded like it may have limited party composition a bit too much, so I'm guessing that was the main thing they wanted to address with the EW changes.

But I think that ended up contributing a lot to the balancing problems right now since they disproportionately benefit bursty jobs more than sustained damage jobs. DT I think made it worse by making all of them 20s without reducing the strength of any, while also making adjustments and adding new skills that moved many more jobs to be more burst-oriented.

I don't really think going back to them having different cooldowns is the way to go, but I do think they should go back to having different effect times, with some lasting quite a bit longer with a lower buff amount to benefit sustained jobs a little more, and that they should be on fewer jobs than now. I'm not sure which ones should/shouldn't have one, though.

Also maybe we could have some jobs be buffers with multiple kinds of buffs on a shared cooldown/resource, maybe as a stance-like skill they could turn on/off at will. It sounded like BRD's Foe Requiem was somewhat along this line.

[Aravell]

"Raid buff cooldowns limit team composition" is the biggest lie that has been told and repeated for so long that a lot of people start to hold it as truth. No one with a basic understanding of mathematics ever chose team compositions according to raid buff cooldowns.

90/60/180 all align at 180, 60/120 align at 120, and every single raid buff aligns at 360 no matter the cooldown.

People chose team compositions according to synergy and buff exploitation, not cooldowns.

The reason raid buffs feel vapid and pointless now is because every job was forcefully smashed into the burst style of gameplay where it's 20s (previously 15s in EW) of mashing every button you have and then 100s (previously 105s in EW) of filler.

Changing raid buffs back to different timers won't really change much, this is true, but only if that's all that changes. If jobs have diverse damage profiles again where certain jobs can pool resources and exploit different buff timers again (like maybe a BLM dropping a Xenoglossy in various different buff windows to not overcap while stocking for the full alignment burst at 6 minutes in), that would make you think more about when and how to align.

[Azurarok]

"Raid buff cooldowns limit team composition" is the biggest lie that has been told and repeated for so long that a lot of people start to hold it as truth. No one with a basic understanding of mathematics ever chose team compositions according to raid buff cooldowns.

90/60/180 all align at 180, 60/120 align at 120, and every single raid buff aligns at 360 no matter the cooldown.

People chose team compositions according to synergy and buff exploitation, not cooldowns.

The reason raid buffs feel vapid and pointless now is because every job was forcefully smashed into the burst style of gameplay where it's 20s (previously 15s in EW) of mashing every button you have and then 100s (previously 105s in EW) of filler.

Changing raid buffs back to different timers won't really change much, this is true, but only if that's all that changes. If jobs have diverse damage profiles again where certain jobs can pool resources and exploit different buff timers again (like maybe a BLM dropping a Xenoglossy in various different buff windows to not overcap while stocking for the full alignment burst at 6 minutes in), that would make you think more about when and how to align.

No yeah I get they still did align eventually, just not as often. I had the impression some folks preferred to just make parties of specific alignments for that reason (mainly exclude 120?). I suppose them being staggered/more frequent like that would benefit non-burst better too.

[AmiableApkallu]

I've been beginning to wonder why we even have raid buffs at this point. There's no real strategy to using them since they've devolved into yet another button to press for the 2 minute burst.

Here's a hot take: There's no real strategy to anything so long as encounter design proceeds along fixed timelines with, at best, the occasional coin flip that determines whether you get Version A or Version B of Some Mechanic. The only opportunity for "strategy" is if you play a job whose role or actions make you responsible for addressing other people's mistakes.

[mallleable]

I would like it if raid buffs were retooled to be more like attacks that have a synergy mechanic to the like Brotherhood or Arcane Circle. Like make the buff percent weaker in favor of stronger, more involved attacks -- like Brotherhood could be a 3% buff, but The Forbidden Chakra hits twice each use under the buff.

[Shurrikhan]

I would like it if raid buffs were retooled to be more like attacks that have a synergy mechanic to the like Brotherhood or Arcane Circle. Like make the buff percent weaker in favor of stronger, more involved attacks -- like Brotherhood could be a 3% buff, but The Forbidden Chakra hits twice each use under the buff.

That would just increasingly turn them into even less interesting personal damage buffs... You'd have turned BH, for instance, into purely RoF-2, but where it gives you and foolproofs the very thing it buffs, so that it's addition, outside of popping it right at 4 Chakra, reduces skill expression instead of emphasizing/accentuating exploitation of your damage window.

[Reginald_Cain]

i get what you're coming from OP, but many jobs are defined by the raidbuffs they provide like bard and dancer. ninja's trick attack was iconic and moving it to mug sucks imo.

[CalvinDescoles]

I do think that timed raid buff make thing too stiff. Beside i think raid buff should exist.

Getting rid of all timed raid buff would allow more creativity imo in jobs and more flexibility when you play them (and i do think it would make them more pleasant to play). As today i think the job system is completly... bloated with all those buff/debuff and make thing over complicated the more they add things to jobs every expac (some jobs actually suffer from button bloat every 2min and yet are very much boring between like SMN/BRD/NIN... many others)



I can really much imagine a job system with no 60/90/120 raid buff and yet still buff something.

Look Bard with their songs... back in the day slashing/blunt/percing debuff that needed to be up every time (of course i don't like type debuff but... let's say a constant trick attack or something like this), or a SCH chain strat that need to be re-applied.

[Valence]

Bring back MP Foe Requiem and MP Hypercharge

[Azurarok]

Bring back MP Foe Requiem and MP Hypercharge

Was MP hypercharge a thing too? I'm having a weirdly hard time finding info on old Hypercharge.

I really like the idea of some jobs being able to choose when to use a buff while weighing resource costs instead of being hard locked to a cooldown timer, so they can adjust to whatever your party comp has for burst windows. Could even have mode where it drains MP slower for a weaker buff that'd benefit sustained jobs better than burst.