Please fix scaling, fights are dying so fast now

[Rebeccubus]

I'm sure this complaint has been said a million times but I want to keep putting a voice out there in the hopes it manages to get through to the devs.

I just got out of a run of P4N (Asphodelos Fourth Circle) through DF that ended in under 5 minutes. The new player with us didnt even get to see half of the fight. Looking at old videos, the point we cleared with the amount of deaths we had, groups were normally at 50% health left. Content is getting skipped faster and faster and something needs to be done because there are a lot of incredibly good fights, mechanics, phase transitions, etc that are just irrelevant now. Yoship said he cares about us getting to see the hard work of the team but that isn't happening right now. The fact we're skipping stuff like the phase transition of Nald'Thal is insane. All that hard work for nothing.

I don't know if it requires better gear syncing, nerfing of potencies, or what, but its getting out of control. Honestly it doesn't even need to be "old" content nowadays. Our damage is scaling so fast that the only time you get the intended experience of content is on release. Either within a single patch or even in the same one after people get gear, all the content gets absolutely shredded. Clearing a fight a bit faster is fine, but its become too much. We are shaving 5 minutes off of a 10 minute fight without even trying.

I honestly think that if anything, a good compromise is to have just duty finder be where things are synced better. If people want to use pf to obliterate a fight for weekly clears or whatever? More power to them. I more care about the new player experience getting worse and worse than anything else.

[CVXIV]

Yeah it's a shame that you don't see the mechanics of a lot of fights anymore
I imagine for new players it'd be disappointing
Personally I wouldn't mind if they worked on how level syncing work, since I believe it's the ilvl that is the main issue
Could be wrong, I remember ilvl being talked about a lot and I don't know enough mechanically about the issue
bottom line is that it'd be fun to see old mechanics again

[VeyaAkemi]

The problem isn't quite scaling, it's max iLvl, Endsinger used to have a similar issue where as the post patch stuff started happening and the max available iLvl increased, she started to die very fast after the LB3 sequence and you wouldn't even get to hear the Scions's lines, much less witness the desperation sequence that is the final phase, but they have since added a stricter iLvl 570 limit(for reference, Hydaelyn syncs to 550), and now the fight flows like it should.

Those two aren't even the only two that have this problem, a very big one to me is Thordan, who will die *moments* after his own LB sequence, and a bit of the narrative, that Thordan threw everything he had at WoL and we were still standing, so by that point he is desperately swinging while completely exhausted and barely able to move, is lost in the process, Thordan in general may need a whole rework, it's known that he can be beaten solo while sync'd.

[Supersnow845]

The problem isn't quite scaling, it's max iLvl, Endsinger used to have a similar issue where as the post patch stuff started happening and the max available iLvl increased, she started to die very fast after the LB3 sequence and you wouldn't even get to hear the Scions's lines, much less witness the desperation sequence that is the final phase, but they have since added a stricter iLvl 570 limit(for reference, Hydaelyn syncs to 550), and now the fight flows like it should.

Those two aren't even the only two that have this problem, a very big one to me is Thordan, who will die *moments* after his own LB sequence, and a bit of the narrative, that Thordan threw everything he had at WoL and we were still standing, so by that point he is desperately swinging while completely exhausted and barely able to move, is lost in the process, Thordan in general may need a whole rework, it's known that he can be beaten solo while sync'd.

Thordan isn’t a good example (but the problem listed is true and should be fixed)

Thordan has been a joke since 3.0

[Rebeccubus]

The problem isn't quite scaling, it's max iLvl, Endsinger used to have a similar issue where as the post patch stuff started happening and the max available iLvl increased, she started to die very fast after the LB3 sequence and you wouldn't even get to hear the Scions's lines, much less witness the desperation sequence that is the final phase, but they have since added a stricter iLvl 570 limit(for reference, Hydaelyn syncs to 550), and now the fight flows like it should.

Those two aren't even the only two that have this problem, a very big one to me is Thordan, who will die *moments* after his own LB sequence, and a bit of the narrative, that Thordan threw everything he had at WoL and we were still standing, so by that point he is desperately swinging while completely exhausted and barely able to move, is lost in the process, Thordan in general may need a whole rework, it's known that he can be beaten solo while sync'd.

Yeah I knew scaling didnt cover everything to say about it but I only had so much space so I chose the one that felt like it could be the most broadly applicable lol. Originally I tried "old content" or "gear sync" but those didnt work right either.

I do think the issue is more than just the iLvL sync cause I feel we are also ballooning in power way too fast even on current content. The difference between each ilvl upgrade is getting insane.

[Jeeqbit]

This has been a problem for a long time, because 8-person and 24-person content is not item level synced. This means that by the end of the expansion, we have gained more than 100 item levels over the earliest content of that expansion. The result is that content from the first 2 tiers have raid-wide AoEs that feel like they do 2% damage, you can stand in everything or skip all the mechanics; almost nothing matters. The content is a striking dummy.

To get a sense of how powerful a difference item level can make, even just an increase of 5 item levels to each party member significantly warps how the content feels and can make a lot of mechanics not matter as much, ease up DPS checks, and reduce the need for mitigation.

Even within the same raid tier, if all the party members are max item level (just 20 item levels over the crafted gear item level), they can destroy the earliest savage floors in about half the time. Yes, I said they can kill savage bosses half way through the fight!

Now, you may wonder what happens when the content is old and we level sync. There is an invisible item level associated with that level, which is the max item level of the expansion. Here is a list, which I never forget:

• 90: 660
• 80: 530
• 70: 400
• 60: 270
• 50: 130

So to answer your question, the first Pandaemonium fight is scaled for item level 565, while players are synced down to 660. Think about that for a moment. All 8 players are probably 105 higher in item level.

Over time, this problem gets worse due to battle system changes. Older fights from, say, Heavensward, have gone through: Stat changes (Parry becoming a partial DPS stat, Accuracy becoming a proper DPS stat, multiple Determination buffs, a Tenacity buff), the removal of stat assignment, a rebalancing of gear stats and tank damage, regular potency increases for years to compete with how overpowered new jobs are because they are afraid of nerfs, a stat squish (which actually made Heavensward content last a little longer, this was a slight improvement), lower level rotations being made hard to mess up so you can do everything easier than you could back then.

Will they do anything about it?
Probably not. We've been asking this to them for years. It's been brought up to them in interviews and Q&As and they agree... yet they do nothing about it. But maybe someday they will randomly address it. Like they do with all Quality of Life - they address things that have been an issue for 10 years at complete random.

[Rebeccubus]

This has been a problem for a long time, because 8-person and 24-person content is not item level synced. This means that by the end of the expansion, we have gained more than 100 item levels over the earliest content of that expansion. The result is that content from the first 2 tiers have raid-wide AoEs that feel like they do 2% damage, you can stand in everything or skip all the mechanics; almost nothing matters. The content is a striking dummy.

To get a sense of how powerful a difference item level can make, even just an increase of 5 item levels to each party member significantly warps how the content feels and can make a lot of mechanics not matter as much, ease up DPS checks, and reduce the need for mitigation.

Even within the same raid tier, if all the party members are max item level (just 20 item levels over the crafted gear item level), they can destroy the earliest savage floors in about half the time. Yes, I said they can kill savage bosses half way through the fight!

Now, you may wonder what happens when the content is old and we level sync. There is an invisible item level associated with that level, which is the max item level of the expansion. Here is a list, which I never forget:

• 90: 660
• 80: 530
• 70: 400
• 60: 270
• 50: 130

So to answer your question, the first Pandaemonium fight is scaled for item level 565, while players are synced down to 660. Think about that for a moment. All 8 players are probably 105 higher in item level.

Over time, this problem gets worse due to battle system changes. Older fights from, say, Heavensward, have gone through: Stat changes (Parry becoming a partial DPS stat, Accuracy becoming a proper DPS stat, multiple Determination buffs, a Tenacity buff), the removal of stat assignment, a rebalancing of gear stats and tank damage, regular potency increases for years to compete with how overpowered new jobs are because they are afraid of nerfs, a stat squish (which actually made Heavensward content last a little longer, this was a slight improvement), lower level rotations being made hard to mess up so you can do everything easier than you could back then.

Will they do anything about it?
Probably not. We've been asking this to them for years. It's been brought up to them in interviews and Q&As and they agree... yet they do nothing about it. But maybe someday they will randomly address it. Like they do with all Quality of Life - they address things that have been an issue for 10 years at complete random.

Wow I did NOT run that math on the difference in pandaemonium wtf. 100 ilvls higher??!?!?

Another thing I've noticed is that the sync doesn't even work correctly with at least spell/skill speed for some reason. I have 2.48 gcd in my gear, but when I sync down it goes to 2.47. I get MORE speed even though my actual stat is lower. It's so weird.

[LordTimmy]

I'd say they can make a formula where all ilvl gear is in mind. Make a Gauss' bell and escalate the Bosses HP so they last at least to see the main mechanics. SE knows how long each fight has to last to make it interesting and engaging to new people.

Lots of ppl will go "Waaaaaah, CT doesn't last 8 min or so! (´；ω；`)ｳｩｩ" I'd say that when there is a lot of high levels, rewards will escalate as when the system rewards you for new ppl trying to get a clear.

Many old content that was fun (and yes CT was fun on its release) is now a snorefest. If it means that the raid will last longer, it is fine in my book.

Ppl are entitled to say they want it to last 7 mins, but geez its boring as h*ll. xD

My two cents.

[Rebeccubus]

I'd say they can make a formula where all ilvl gear is in mind. Make a Gauss' bell and escalate the Bosses HP so they last at least to see the main mechanics. SE knows how long each fight has to last to make it interesting and engaging to new people.

Lots of ppl will go "Waaaaaah, CT doesn't last 8 min or so! (´；ω；`)ｳｩｩ" I'd say that when there is a lot of high levels, rewards will escalate as when the system rewards you for new ppl trying to get a clear.

Many old content that was fun (and yes CT was fun on its release) is now a snorefest. If it means that the raid will last longer, it is fine in my book.

Ppl are entitled to say they want it to last 7 mins, but geez its boring as h*ll. xD

My two cents.

Yeah its a really ironic issue where old fights are being beaten faster and easier, thereby MAKING them more boring and making people want to beat them faster. I agree that we generally need to be weakened across the board (especially in defenses, damage is so often a joke nowadays in casual content), but I wanted to keep my original post focused on the specific issue in regards to the experience for new players (and when replaying fights we love via Duty Finder). Though we also need stuff like more engaging rotations at lower levels, more updates to old content, etc to help this issue as well. CT was partly more fun on release cause it was max level content lol. We had more buttons to use at the time.

[ovIm]

Many old content that was fun (and yes CT was fun on its release) is now a snorefest. If it means that the raid will last longer, it is fine in my book.

I'd like to add that part of why old content is "boring" is because classes have also been gutted to hell and back. There are very few classes with fun/engaging/interesting level 50 kits, so of course people want to have that stuff done with quickly. If there is motivation to fix time spend in older content (which I am generally in favor for, don't get me wrong) the jobs in the game should also be fun when doing so.